What is the value of Williams and Villanueva?

[Rockmaninoff]

I posted this in the Jason Kidd trade thread, but I wanted to make a thread out of it since there was a previous discussion regarding Williams/Villanueva for Williams/Claxton.

Let me start by saying, I don't think the Nets are looking to rebuild, but add better scoring depth around their Big 3. Kidd is complaining to get something done. There aren't a lot of contenders who can afford Kidd's salary or make it work in trade. But, Jersey could really use Mo Williams and Charlie Villanueva.

Williams/Villanueva/Gadzuric/Storey

For

Sean Williams/Wright/Collins/Maglorie

Magloire expires this year, Collins next. That's $10+ mil off the books in 2009. Sean Williams is young defensive/rebounding stud. Our front line would be set for years. Wright is a decent young small forward.

Ivey/Bell
Redd/Mason
Simmons/Wright
Yi/Williams
Bogut/Williams

This trade immediately makes our scoring Big 3 Redd, Yi, and Bogut. Yi and Bogut get more responsibility, touches, and minutes, via addition by subtraction. This helps their development. If Redd can't get onboard, then we look to move him in the offseason. We then look to up grade the 1, 2, and 3 through the draft and/or Sessions.

New Jersey really needs a combo guard who can score off the bench, and an inside scoring athletic power forward.

Luke23 replied:

-= original quote snipped =-



That's not enough return for Mo and CV. Wright is ok, is he really any better than Simmons or Mason? I like Sean Williams, but we wouldn't have any cap room regardless with Redd/Simmons/Gadzuric's deals still burdening us.

I'd pass on this one.

Wright is younger than both, and provides at least some depth. We got nothing now.

The cap room is so that we can resign our own good players, as well as remaining flexable for any trade in which we have to take on more salary then is outgoing. Gadzuric is traded in this deal.

Really? Not enough for Williams and CV. What is enough? What is their value?

[midranger]

It's more than that. Mo would be far and away the best player in that deal, and it's quite possible that CV is the second best. It certainly doesn't help us win, and if we're going that direction, Redd should be the first to go, then Mo/etc... could be moved in smaller deals. The only thing I like about your trade is losing 2 years of Gadz's deal.

[europa]

I'm not sure Villanueva has much value on his own. To get something of value for the Bucks, I think he'd have to be a throw-in with another player (like Mo or Redd) or in conjunction with a first-round pick. I talked about this last summer and people lined up in arms against me but I stand by the points I made then. I don't see how much has changed with him.

Mo is trickier. He's a much better player than Villanueva but as the J/S reported last summer there are questions around the league about whether he's a legit starter on a playoff team. He also has a trickier contract both in terms of length and amount. So a team would have to be really sold on him to commit to him for five years (or five plus if they traded for him now) at nearly $9M a year. Most teams aren't going to pay that amount of a backup so a team would have to really like Mo a lot to trade for him as a starter or have enough other pieces in place to commit that much to him financially in a starting role.

[showtimesam]

Seems like a solid deal, although i'd prefer the hawks trade. I really like trading gadz's contract for collins.

I just think the best move for the bucks future is getting rid of mo or redd and hopefully bringing gadz or simmons with them.

This move accomplishes that, so I'm for it.

[europa]

The Nets aren't going to trade their young talent (or who they believe to be their young talent) in all probability. If they look to deal, it will be moving Kidd or Carter and maybe Jefferson and going through a full rebuilding program. If they trade Kidd, that's inevitable in my opinion.

I'd offer:

Mo/Villanueva/Voshkul/Gadz

FOR

Jefferson/Magloire

This gives the Nets either a replacement for Kidd in Mo or a combo guard off the bench. Villanueva is a young player with "potential," while Voshkul is an expiring and Gadz a replacement on the end of the bench for Magloire.

For the Bucks, it commits way too much money in the SF position but the major talent upgrade would be worth it. They rid themselves of Gadz's bloated contract and Magloire replaces Voskuhl as a one-year rental.

[ahagen87]

i think if we did trade mo to them we would try to get a base package back involved around Sean Williams/Marcus Williams
i believe we would have to include CV but that would be fine w. me


i would try and do something along the lines of
Mo/CV/Gadz for Sean Williams/Marcus Williams/Collins and if possible throw Mags in there to help w. cap