Incorrect assumption about Kohl & "lame duck"?

[trwi7]

If Harris had it his way this trade never would have occured.

Still waiting.

As am I.

[Nebula1]

He's just getting started in the career, however and while the wins may not be what we want at this very moment in time, the outlook is still very good and the position this franchise is in is very good, minus the arena situation.

Retaining him short-term is the better solution at this time instead of getting somebody new, who will take a few years to get his plan in line. We're just too close now the enacting a strong growth plan to change gears and set the franchise back even further.

[midranger]

What are you waiting for? You won't count Yi, you won't count the Marion trade that he mined, nor the Boozer trade that he had on the table. The other moves made in the past two years were small FA moves, and junk for junk trades. None of those small moves have "clearly improved" the team whatever that may mean. I do know that he pick up two starters this summer.

[europa]

I did count Yi. Did you not see the rather clear statement I made where I praised that pick?

But no, I'm not going to count moves that weren't made. Do you know how many failed trades occur in the NBA on a yearly basis? Even the best GMs don't make all the moves they want to make. Things happen so moves that you hoped to make fall through for a variety of reasons. At the end of the day, the only moves that matter are the ones that are actually made.

If Harris is doing a good job or a great job, surely it would be easy to come up with a list of moves to support this position. But right now, nobody has added a single move other than the one I listed myself (Yi). People criticize me for my stance on Harris even though I have offered up a large number of reasons to support my point of view so where's the opposite list? Where are the lengthy list of moves that have clearly improved this team that Harris has made? If one believes Harris has done a good or great job, where is the evidence to support this point of view?

Why dodge the question? Why not just answer it and provide the list? It should be extremely easy and yet I continue to wait with no list in sight that would lead me to alter my opinon.

[Nebula1]

I did count Yi. Did you not see the rather clear statement I made where I praised that pick?

But no, I'm not going to count moves that weren't made. Do you know how many failed trades occur in the NBA on a yearly basis? Even the best GMs don't make all the moves they want to make. Things happen so moves that you hoped to make fall through for a variety of reasons. At the end of the day, the only moves that matter are the ones that are actually made.

If Harris is doing a good job or a great job, surely it would be easy to come up with a list of moves to support this position. But right now, nobody has added a single move other than the one I listed myself (Yi). People criticize me for my stance on Harris even though I have offered up a large number of reasons to support my point of view so where's the opposite list? Where are the lengthy list of moves that have clearly improved this team that Harris has made? If one believes Harris has done a good or great job, where is the evidence to support this point of view?

Why dodge the question? Why not just answer it and provide the list? It should be extremely easy and yet I continue to wait with no list in sight that would lead me to alter my opinon.

See Sigra's thread.

[midranger]

Your question has been answered. The truth is, that he has not made a deal large enough to be considered a team changing decision (either positively or negatively) other than CV for TJ in which his hand was forced. He did obtain two starters and 2 backups this summer who are better than the guys they sent to the bench, so there you go.

What moves has Harris made to be considered an "Atrocious GM?"

I'm waiting.

[midranger]

Jiri Welsch and Ersan Ilyasova. He's atrocious.

[europa]

Your question has been answered.

No, it wasn't. I asked a very simple question and it you dodged it and no one else has attempted to provide an answer. At least Ilhan tried in his thread. I'll give him credit for that. He ignored the rather important fact that this team hasn't gotten any better and arguably is getting worse (which is the most important issue here) but at least he tried.

I expected more from those who claim I'm so off base with my criticisms of Harris. I had a good idea I wouldn't see such a list since I don't believe it exists but I at least thought someone might try. Oh well.

[midranger]

I'm waiting.

[midranger]

CV for TJ - hand forced by owner, had MUCH better deal on table - still bad
Noel - blah - standard 2nd rounder, still with the team
Damir Markota - drunk T-Rex -Very bad
Magloire for Blake - crap for crap - draw
Smith for Ruben - SF injured for the season, both mediocre players - draw
Blake for Boykins - worse crap for crap - draw
Yi - got BPA with his draft pick - great
Sessions - who knows, playing well - good
Ivey - nice minimum pickup - good
Voskuhl - scored a backup center for 3 million/1 year - good
Mason - supplanted Simmons as starter, team was doing better when he was healthy - good
Bell x 5 years - too long, but decent value per year - blah
Mo - obviously best PG on team, signed him for NBA average for PG's - good

He hasn't done much good or bad. Certainly not to atrocious levels.

[Sideways]

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No, it wasn't. I asked a very simple question and it you dodged it and no one else has attempted to provide an answer. At least Ilhan tried in his thread. I'll give him credit for that. He ignored the rather important fact that this team hasn't gotten any better and arguably is getting worse (which is the most important issue here) but at least he tried.

I expected more from those who claim I'm so off base with my criticisms of Harris. I had a good idea I wouldn't see such a list since I don't believe it exists but I at least thought someone might try. Oh well.

If it's not to personal to ask this have you ever held a management position? This is not a sarcastic question, but I think it goes to the heart of what I think is your misunderstanding of the position that Harris is in.

[msiris]

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I

[europa]

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If it's not to personal to ask this have you ever held a management position? This is not a sarcastic question, but I think it goes to the heart of what I think is your misunderstanding of the position that Harris is in.

I do understand the position he's in and I've acknowledged the difficulties he faces. No one is disputing that. But he is still responsible for the moves that he makes. Is he negatively impacted by Kohl? Absolutely and at no point have I even attempted to argue otherwise. But Kohl hasn't impacted all of Harris' moves and there are many of them that I believe have not worked and have contributed to the state of affairs this team is now mired in. That is my point. I have provided my list and I've been criticized for it. All I asked in return was to see a contrary list of moves Harris has made that have made the team better. If I can provide a list of moves I believe Harris has made to make the team worse why is it so difficult to provide the opposite list if my point of view is so flawed?

It's a very simple question and one that should be extremely easy to answer if my point of view is so off base. And yet, no one has provided it. The question here isn't whether Harris has made good moves. He clearly has and I've acknowledged that. The question is what moves has Harris made lately which have clearly made the team better? My point is I'm seeing a growing trend in his decision making recently which is negatively impacting this team. To me, that's a concern and I've provided a list to support my position. But if I'm wrong, then provide a list of all the good moves he's made. Give me a reason (or reasons) to alter the belief I have.

Again, a very easy question to answer if one believes he's done a good or great job. Maybe when I check back in later I'll see someone who has answered the question I posed.

[midranger]

I'm waiting.

I've posted the list of moves that made you go from calling LH one of the best GMs in the league, to calling him atrocious. I can guess which one got you.

[msiris]

Your question has been answered. The truth is, that he has not made a deal large enough to be considered a team changing decision (either positively or negatively) other than CV for TJ in which his hand was forced. He did obtain two starters and 2 backups this summer who are better than the guys they sent to the bench, so there you go.

What moves has Harris made to be considered an "Atrocious GM?"

I'm waiting.

Simple. Look at the Bucks record the last two years. I would not call him an atrocious, but not impressive at all. The only thing Kohl as done is nix trades that might have made us better. I just blame Harris with the signings and some of his drafting.

[midranger]

Maybe GAD will have to bump that thread which clearly shows europa proclaiming LH one of the best GMs, then shows the moves made since then, ending in LH being atrocious.

Its funny stuff.

A couple second round picks and a trade in which his hand was forced by an idiot owner.

[Sideways]

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I do understand the position he's in and I've acknowledged the difficulties he faces. No one is disputing that. But he is still responsible for the moves that he makes. Is he negatively impacted by Kohl? Absolutely and at no point have I even attempted to argue otherwise. But Kohl hasn't impacted all of Harris' moves and there are many of them that I believe have not worked and have contributed to the state of affairs this team is now mired in. That is my point. I have provided my list and I've been criticized for it. All I asked in return was to see a contrary list of moves Harris has made that have made the team better. If I can provide a list of moves I believe Harris has made to make the team worse why is it so difficult to provide the opposite list if my point of view is so flawed?

It's a very simple question and one that should be extremely easy to answer if my point of view is so off base. And yet, no one has provided it. The question here isn't whether Harris has made good moves. He clearly has and I've acknowledged that. The question is what moves has Harris made lately which have clearly made the team better? My point is I'm seeing a growing trend in his decision making recently which is negatively impacting this team. To me, that's a concern and I've provided a list to support my position. But if I'm wrong, then provide a list of all the good moves he's made. Give me a reason (or reasons) to alter the belief I have.

Again, a very easy question to answer if one believes he's done a good or great job. Maybe when I check back in later I'll see someone who has answered the question I posed.

This is were you seem to lose ppl. You didn't answer my question. You instead chose to argue your point without even knowing where I stand or where I was was going with my point. If you don't want to answer my question thats fine, but don't assume to know where I stand without at least giving me the chance to debate my point.

I will answers your first question. I don't know. His track record as of late has not been that great. I will ask you this. How much of it has been due to Kohl's micromanagement? Without knowing the answer to that question we will never know how good or bad Harris has been as a GM.

Trust me, if you have never been in the position that Harris is rumored to be in now you will never understand how difficult it truly is.

[smauss]

Since I have no personal knowledge on who did what and who proposed this trade and who nixed what; I will gladly blame them both.

I read in a story recently (I'm sorry, I can't remember specifics) that stated that this current bucks team was LH's team, the team he wanted and put together. PUKE!

It is also quite common knowledge (as GAD referred to) that Kohl is a meddlesome owner who doesn't allow a GM to do the job. PUKE AGAIN!

I'll blame the entire front office for this debacle, I'm not going to argue what I don't personally know; there is way more than enough blame to go around....

Last point, I think that the senator will continue to hamstring LH this season because if he starts feeling pressure, he will need someone to throw under the bus and take the heat off himself! After all, he is a politician........

[msiris]

Maybe GAD will have to bump that thread which clearly shows europa proclaiming LH one of the best GMs, then shows the moves made since then, ending in LH being atrocious.

Its funny stuff.

A couple second round picks and a trade in which his hand was forced by an idiot owner.

Funny that happened when Harris got Mags. And 99% of you felt the same way. Funny. Blame the owner. A lot of good that will do when he owns the team. Come on Harris is some of the blame. Signs a SF who most people think is the easiest position to fill.

[Debit One]

Question for GAD (or others):

If LH is well respected around the league, and could land another job, why would he ever stay in Milwaukee when his contract expires?