How good is Al Jefferson?

BillessuR6 · Post #41 » by **BillessuR6** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:35 pm

Jefferson is a post player, Randolph is a jump shooter.

You can find numerous jumpshoting big men in the league OTOH low post big men are extremely rare. That is why there is no comparison between the two.

celticfan42487 · Post #42 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:55 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Since the 2004-2006 season Randolph has just about played at the same level, people just caught on. So far this season Randolph has been the most aggressive player for the Knicks. Sure he can shoot the 15 footers, but he looking to score in the paint. Zach is doing his best to play with Curry on the offensive end, he is trying to make it work.

Jefferson however who is their to take shots away from him? Thats one thing we wont know until next year really.

hopefully, for all we know MINN could have the 4th pick in the draft.

But yeah to piggy back on the last reply. Randolph's versital offensive abilities are also his downfall.

In the 05-06 season he decided to not fight in the lowpost and shoot jumpers, and therein he lost his value. Because if he settles for jumpers he's no way valuable to a team with that contract.

Hence him beign traded for a bag of potatoes to the only team that was willing to take that risk on him, NY. Last year he got back into the post quite a bit and had an amazing year, but most teams can't take the chance on him deciding to play in the post.

When he plays with fire he's a 24 ppg 10 rpg on 47%fg big man [aka AL level right now] when he doesn't he's an 18 ppg 8rpg on 44%fg guy...a lesser Aldridge.

Post #43 » by **Manhattan Project** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:29 pm

So were going to knock a player because he can stretch the floor? Does that mean KG's value goes down? No im not comparing the two at all but there both versatile.

Edit: Randolph is playing the same way, just this year people are taking shots away from him. Crawford and Curry take a bunch of shots away. Jefferson touches the ball the same way Curry did last year.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #44 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:32 pm

Another Zach Randolph for now but in the future when he gets talent around him watch out. He will improve as a defender and passer in the coming years.

JoshB914 · Post #45 » by **JoshB914** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:54 pm

Jefferson is a potential franchise player. If Minnesota can draft well over the next couple of years (with McHale screwing everything up which is very likely) they will have a nice young core to work with.

realfung · Post #46 » by **realfung** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:03 pm

hustle player......

He was pretty good on Boston already.....
I think people usually think can Jefferson as good as KG...
I would say no, but he can be better than Ben Wallace...

KG didn't get a ring, Big Ben did...
so is Jefferson has more potential than KG??? No individual wise, but no Minnie got a player to build around...

Datruth345 · Post #47 » by **Datruth345** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:15 pm

best young big man in the league

and if you compare him to Zach Randolph, you obviously haven't watch him play enough...please stop

Post #48 » by **Manhattan Project** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:18 pm

Datruth345 wrote:best young big man in the league

and if you compare him to Zach Randolph, you obviously haven't watch him play enough...please stop

So do tell why there so different?

DrunkOnMystery · Post #49 » by **DrunkOnMystery** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:21 pm

Datruth345 wrote:best young big man in the league

and if you compare him to Zach Randolph, you obviously haven't watch him play enough...please stop

He has the best post game, sure, but I'd say that Howard and Boozer are both substantially better than Jefferson is.

kandiking · Post #50 » by **kandiking** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:53 pm

DrunkOnMystery wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

He has the best post game, sure, but I'd say that Howard and Boozer are both substantially better than Jefferson is.

dude boozer is 26. and yes, dwight howard is the best big (period) in the league right now and for years to come.

yehyeh82 · Post #51 » by **yehyeh82** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:53 pm

Love his offense, hate his defense. He just doesn't have the instincts/quickness to protect the rim area from driving guards. He is just awful in that area, and because I don't see him getting quicker and I find it hard to believe that his instints will get much better since that is usually something you have, I don't see him getting much better in this area. What he and his team needs to be a winner is for him to stay at the 4 and have a Camby type 5 who can protect the rim and hit the mid-range J (ie doesn't need to be down low all the time offensively), otherwise they will never be good enough defensively.

D1SGRUNTL3D · Post #52 » by **D1SGRUNTL3D** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:04 pm

he has 2 less blocks then KG if thats what you mean by protecting the rim

deeney0 · Post #53 » by **deeney0** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:08 pm

I don't see any reason to assume Al can't keep improving on defense - he's already some strides in the first half of the season.

celticfan42487 · Post #54 » by **celticfan42487** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:23 pm

Manhattan Project wrote:So were going to knock a player because he can stretch the floor? Does that mean KG's value goes down? No im not comparing the two at all but there both versatile.

Edit: Randolph is playing the same way, just this year people are taking shots away from him. Crawford and Curry take a bunch of shots away. Jefferson touches the ball the same way Curry did last year.

The first question, it's a matter of how you use your talents. So in KG's case YES. KG would be much more important if he played the post like Tim Duncan rather then beign out at 17 feet and running pick and pops. Essentially playing the low post nearly exclusively is the diffrence between KG and Duncan [that and Duncan has a Center's body to do that but for the sake of argument wiht AL and Randolph lets exclude this]

So Randoph not last year, the YEAR prior, just became a jump shooting big. Putting up 43%fg, 8rpg, 18ppg as the FIRST option... just like AL Jefferson is right now... that significantly hurt his stock. He didn't put in the effort that year like he should of to hurt his team and became vastly overpaid that year because of it. But what's worse is you know he could of been so much more valuable. Last year he got back to going inside and beign agressive rasing his numbers back to what AL Jefferson is puttin up right now. But you have to see the risk with a player such as Randolph who quit on helping his team for an entire year. That's why he had no trade value because no one can really take that risk [expect NY it seems].

I'm not saying Randolph isn't playing hard this year like he did last year. I didn't say he regressed back to his broke year of just a jumpshooting big man. See this is the other edge of the sword because he is versitale and not the #1 option [sadly] he's using his versitility to fit in next to Curry that AL never will be able to.

So that what I was pointing out the diffrence between them. 1) AL doesn't have the option to be lazy on offense because he isn't that naturally talented like Randolph 2) Randolph got a bad reputation for putting up medocoire stats that showed little heart for an entire year 2 years ago.. well that and his off court promblems. So AL can never do what Randolph did to make him so undervalued but he can never have the value Randolph has to blend in with another Center.

Post #55 » by **Manhattan Project** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:57 pm

celticfan42487 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

The first question, it's a matter of how you use your talents. So in KG's case YES. KG would be much more important if he played the post like Tim Duncan rather then beign out at 17 feet and running pick and pops. Essentially playing the low post nearly exclusively is the diffrence between KG and Duncan [that and Duncan has a Center's body to do that but for the sake of argument wiht AL and Randolph lets exclude this]

So Randoph not last year, the YEAR prior, just became a jump shooting big. Putting up 43%fg, 8rpg, 18ppg as the FIRST option... just like AL Jefferson is right now... that significantly hurt his stock. He didn't put in the effort that year like he should of to hurt his team and became vastly overpaid that year because of it. But what's worse is you know he could of been so much more valuable. Last year he got back to going inside and beign agressive rasing his numbers back to what AL Jefferson is puttin up right now. But you have to see the risk with a player such as Randolph who quit on helping his team for an entire year. That's why he had no trade value because no one can really take that risk [expect NY it seems].

I'm not saying Randolph isn't playing hard this year like he did last year. I didn't say he regressed back to his broke year of just a jumpshooting big man. See this is the other edge of the sword because he is versitale and not the #1 option [sadly] he's using his versitility to fit in next to Curry that AL never will be able to.

So that what I was pointing out the diffrence between them. 1) AL doesn't have the option to be lazy on offense because he isn't that naturally talented like Randolph 2) Randolph got a bad reputation for putting up medocoire stats that showed little heart for an entire year 2 years ago.. well that and his off court promblems. So AL can never do what Randolph did to make him so undervalued but he can never have the value Randolph has to blend in with another Center.

I can respect that.

I still question if Randolph is actually the first option on the team, he seems to cater to Curry. He tries to force feed him like the rest of the team did last year. Curry just seems like a different player. Randolph comes out in the second half and calls for the ball every time. I guess there both first options in a sense. Throw on top that Crawford will shoot any time he feels like he is open or when he takes it to the hole and does one of his unorthodox shots.

Im not going to say that Jefferson dont work hard on offense because we all know that he does. Though I will say that what Randolph does on the offensive side of the ball is amazing, to average a double double with no athleticism to speak of is impressive. I just want to see what Jefferson can really do with a legit scorer next to him. Maybe we can find that out once Foye comes back and is completely healthy.

One last thing, a lot of fans were ignorant to the fact that Randolph can actually stretch the floor. Thats why a lot of them bashed the trade. Then once they found out he could they loved it overlooking the fact neither plays a lick of defense. Now everyone wants to oust Curry because at least Randolph tries, something Curry never does. So yeah you right Al and Curry would be pathetic watching.

yehyeh82 · Post #56 » by **yehyeh82** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:49 pm

D1SGRUNTL3D wrote:he has 2 less blocks then KG if thats what you mean by protecting the rim

And how many more fouls does he have on driving guards than KG? And how many less changed shots does he have than KG on guards driving the paint? And how many times a game are guards more likely to drive the lane against Al as opposed to KG? There is a lot more to it than the total number of blocked shots. Just the fact that they are two blocked shots apart proves this because anybody who watches and understands the game can see that KG>>>>>Al at protecting the lane.

Post #57 » by **UGA Hayes** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:25 am

I just want to add that its not really fair to say he was the best player on two of the worst teams because they are basically the same team, as in the exact same players with different uniforms minus Boston's good defensive players. By the way he is hands down the best post/big scorer in the league right now, noone is really even that close except Amare and Boozer.

yehyeh82 · Post #58 » by **yehyeh82** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:44 am

I might give the edge to Duncan in terms of post scoring simply because of his extra height, but I would have to say that Al is better than both Amare and Boozer at back to the basket post scoring. Both of them are better than Al at pick and rolls.

richboy · Post #59 » by **richboy** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:03 am

Some will get mad but I said before he is one of the worst defensive players in the league. I personally say there red flags when you have a PF/C that puts up his kind of numbers on bad teams. IMO dominate big mn effect the game so much that if there 20 and 12 there team should be atleast respectable. I've seen Jefferson put up numbers in these games and left feeling his numbers outplayed his impact. Stat wise he is better than TD and KG but his impact isn't a tenth to those players. He has a chance to be a good player but I would not call him a franchise player.

andyhop · Post #60 » by **andyhop** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:10 am

richboy wrote:Some will get mad but I said before he is one of the worst defensive players in the league. I personally say there red flags when you have a PF/C that puts up his kind of numbers on bad teams. IMO dominate big mn effect the game so much that if there 20 and 12 there team should be atleast respectable. I've seen Jefferson put up numbers in these games and left feeling his numbers outplayed his impact. Stat wise he is better than TD and KG but his impact isn't a tenth to those players. He has a chance to be a good player but I would not call him a franchise player.

As a 4 he is an average defender,as a 5 he isn't that good defensively.To talk about him being one of the worst defensive players in the league is just ignorance or stupidity.