Official Jason Kidd Thread

[Dexmor]

I wanted Kidd so bad last year I got so depressed when they didnt' get him. I thought they had him and all the free agents would have followed.
Now they have the chance but it would probably cost us Farmar who has become my 3rd favorite Laker and 4th overall.
Who would you guys rather have Kidd or Farmar? I know Kidd is way better now but in 2-3 years that won't be the case. Your choice if you were the gm and it could be a straight up trade?

[crazyeights]

You know Star, every time you turn the page of your diary doesn't mean it's time to start a new thread.

Farmar = future
Kidd = past

? = present.

[lakeshow248]

I think you have to look at it like this Farmar is around 13 yrs younger and is about 18 million dollars cheaper.

That being said Farmar shoots the ball a lot better than J Kidd but Farmar is not really getting teammates involved he is coming in and either passing it to Kobe or taking his own shot so team is not thriving on this. Kidd however is always looking to push the ball and make his surrounding cast better. But the key factor come playoff time in big games is Kidd has been their and will not fold by making bad plays under pressure so I look at it like , Farmar has a future but his future will not coincide w/ Kobe's, maybe Bynum's. The thing is do you make a play for Kidd in hopes of having him kobe and bynum going really deep and maybe winning this yrs or do you say no to Kidd and hope that Farmar develops over night to be the leader to take it this yrs.

My soultion would be this a three way deal w/ Miami, NJ, and the Lakers'....check it out, Critt is my main piece to NJ but if necessary I would surrounder Farmar.....TO: LA J.Kidd and Udonis Haslem

TO: MIAMI-- Marcus Williams and Lamar Odom and Vlad Rad....

TO: NJ -- Jarvaris Crittenton, Lakers' cond 1st rd pk, Ricky Davis, Jason Williams and Kwame Brown, Miami second rd....

New Lakers lineup:
Kidd, Farmar
Kobe, Fish, Sasha
Bynum, Mihm, DJ
Haslem, Turiaf
Luke, Ariza ... The why for Lakers' Kidd's leadership and easy shots he gets for teammates and Haslem for his Jumper from baseline and hustle.

Miami new lineup:
M Williams, C Quinn
D wade, D cook
Shaq, Blount, Alonzo
Odom,
Vlad, D wright....the why for the Heat... they get odom who is better suited for the team and they get a young prospect PG in Marucus Williams along w/ an outside shooter in Vlad that they have been missing since Kapano and Posey left.

NJ new lineup....
J Critt, J williams, D Armstrong
Vince, R Davis, A Wright
Kwame, Maglorie, Kristic, collins
Boone, S Williams, M Allen
RJ, Nachbar......the why for NJ the get a very nice prospect in J Critt, and a ton of depth for this year and the key is Nxt season--the are at a cap right now , w/ Kidd, of 59. 6 million w/ these moves they could end up at 41.2 million-- as the contracts of all these players are up: J will 8.9 mill, Kwame 9 mill, R Davis 6.8, Maglorie 4 mill, Nachbar 2.5 and Malik Allen and Antoine Wright as well which is a lot of cap space for a rebulding team and they get a cond first rd Lakers pick and who Knows maybe a Miami second or something....

Now I think that is a win win win for all three in my opinion......

Back to top

[Tommy Trojan]

Well Kidd much better of a player, but for the salary Fish is better.

I don't know how we will IF it if we trade for Kidd? I already have Fish and he is not going anywhere, then farmar I would love to keep him. Then JC, we are loaded at the PG position as is.

[dockingsched]

straight up thats obviously a trade that has to be made. the lakers still have critt for the future.

[Dexmor]

I don't know why your worried about money because you don't pay them but forget trades that work or salary I just want to know what would you rather have Farmar who will be there for the next 15 years or Kidd who wlll probably be there for around 3-6?

Crazyeights how do you have a problem with me posting now considering i haven't even been on for like a week. This is a message board were people post guess what messages. They are called threads. I don't think I will ever get how people have a problem with people posting on a message board. Not only do I think that is insane I think it's on the Lakers board on realgm. Nobody else is that stuck up not even New Yorkers.

[Jajwanda]

I worry about money because it determines how aggressive Jerry Buss will be in the future concerning the luxury tax and extensions to Bynum, Turiaf, and Farmar.

By the way I'd take Farmar over Kidd right now for the triangle. Kidd can't hit the backside of a barn.

[Lakers05]

PER differential shows that they're about equal. However, PER assumes that Farmar would maintain the same production in 36 min.

I would say that Farmar is slightly inferior to Kidd(tough to tell without a history of how players switch to playing from the bench to starting.) However, the fact that we're even comparing him to Kidd shows that Phil is making a mistake, not starting Farmar.

[lakeshow248]

Ok I here the money talk on extensions but wouldn't you take a chance of trading Farmar for Kidd in a deal like I outlined up top w/ the abilty of still having Bynum, Critt for the future and money from Kidds and kobe's contract expiring at the same time.

The building blocks for future in J critt and Bynum and the flexiblitly of almost 40 million dollars in contracts if the Kidd, Kobe and Bynum plan fails-- I think it's a must you can't lose on this....For me having a two way play like that far outways the abilty of Jordan Farmar.

I think Lakers could push to move Critt over Farmar put Nets might insist on farmar but that's ok.

[Dexmor]

This is not a trade thread it's a player comparison so pretend the money wasn't an issue.
I know Kidd would mean sure title but I think in 5 years Kidd will be retiring and Farmar will not even be in his prime yet and will be a Parker level player who gives you 17 and 6 and if he gets any better at shooting the 3 in which all likely hood he will he could be a 20 point a game scorer with 7 assits 4 rebounds and 2-3 steals. He could be a top 10 pg in a couple years. I Mr.Critt think he will be better then Critt now. I have changed my mind on that issue.
I don't know who I would rather have Kidd or Farmar personally I just want to know what you all think.
These days stars don't always make the allstar game with all the talent now (they should have 15-20 players on each team and make the game longer) so Farmar probably won't be an allstar when a guy like Nash or Davis could be left off but Farmar could be a star and close to allstar ala Gerald Wallace.

[Dexmor]

By the way Kidd can hit the 3.

[Lakers05]

Ok I here the money talk on extensions but wouldn't you take a chance of trading Farmar for Kidd in a deal like I outlined up top w/ the abilty of still having Bynum, Critt for the future and money from Kidds and kobe's contract expiring at the same time.

The building blocks for future in J critt and Bynum and the flexiblitly of almost 40 million dollars in contracts if the Kidd, Kobe and Bynum plan fails-- I think it's a must you can't lose on this....For me having a two way play like that far outways the abilty of Jordan Farmar.

I think Lakers could push to move Critt over Farmar put Nets might insist on farmar but that's ok.

You might want to be careful calling Kidd a two-way player, because the numbers aren't showing it. It's like thinking Duncan is the same defender he used to be(even last year, you can tell his defense was great, probably should have won DPOY), but when you watch him carefully, he's not, and the numbers show it.

Kidd, however, gets more respect from the refs, so that could be a factor, if we're thinking of trading Farmar for Kidd.

[LLcoleJ]

Kidd by a landslide. And that is not a knock on Jordan

[milesfides]

Wow. I like Farmar, but really.

Farmar is a better scorer. Jason Kidd is better at everything else, and by a very large margin. One of the best passers, and definitely the best rebounding point guard. Defensively, he may have lost a step, but he's still capable of playing great defense.

Farmar is a better scorer, but Kidd is a better point guard, a better basketball player.

[MAMBAEMD]

By the way Kidd can hit the 3.

Not really. He is a career ~33% 3-point shooter. Farmar is a much better outside shooter than Kidd.
Kidd is a much better rebounder and play maker.

[MAMBAEMD]

And a much better overall player.
Getting Kidd would bring us one step closer to contention IMO.

[DoctaJ]

Farmar is a better scorer. Jason Kidd is better at everything else

Exactly.

The only offer I'd make for Kidd, though is if it doesn't cost Bynum, Lamar, Kobe, and one of Farmar/Crittenton (preferably Farmar)..

If that were to happen, I'd love this line-up:
Kidd
Fisher
Kobe
Lamar
Bynum

[lakerboy]

And a much better overall player.
Getting Kidd would bring us one step closer to contention IMO.

and kidd said he wants to go to a contender,maybee thats why kobe is doing all this bynum makes us a contender stuff...just to get kidd...pretty darn smart.

[Lakers05]

One thing I've learned is that whenever a player is playing well/not so well, it shows up in the stats(particularly the EFF stats). If the stats don't correspond with the game outcomes, then we must not have taken all the variables into account correctly.

I've already explained a couple of variables for the PER differential. However, there's another variable called interior presence. This could alter your OPP PER by a couple of points, depending on how good the interior presence is. Now, looking at the Nets centers vs ours, you'd have to say we have the stronger presence, and Farmar has been coming mostly off the bench, so we can safely say that, even at his age, Kidd is the better defender.

In addition, scorers are much less likely to maintain the same PER/EFF with a contender than with a weak team. Normally, this would handicap Farmar in this comparison. However, in this case, Farmar is ALREADY playing on a contender. So it's actually up to Kidd to prove that he'll maintain his PER playing on more talented teams. Now considering that Kidd specializes in "rare stats", one can assume that he should be able to maintain his EFF/PER, but you never know, as we've seen with Odom(if he's not being interfered by Kobe, then Bynum and Odom could, certainly, his rebounds would take a dip.)

Look at it this way. Start Farmar, play him 35 min and assume that he plays at the same level right now off the bench, I'm pretty sure the difference between him and Kidd'll be a lot smaller than people realize. Or put Farmar on the Nets, I really don't see how Farmar would do any worse.

Objectively, I'd say that Farmar would have about the same impact if he were on the Nets. However, Kidd would have more impact than Farmar if he were here. Why? Because I think Farmar would raise his stats to where he would be at Kidd's level if he were on the Nets, whereas Kidd would maintain his stats here(which by default, makes him better than Farmar.)

[Lakers05]

BTW, when people say that and this guy will fit, it means that this guy is much more likely to maintain his EFF playing with that team. There is no such thing as assists being worth more than points(well, depends on how many points that is.) You can say that it's more rare, but it certainly doesn't help you win more. If that were the case, and with all these triple-doubles Kidd is racking up, the Nets should be winning a lot more, shouldn't they?

Also, if you can add 2 30-point scorers together and assume that both actually maintain that average, then wouldn't your offense be that much more potent? The problem is that they don't maintain that. In other words, their EFF/PER doesn't stay the same.