Official Jason Kidd Thread

rhp1990 · Post #21 » by **rhp1990** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:44 pm

^^ Farmar would never average anything close to a triple double like kidd.

Kidd>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Farmar remember last year when Kristic went out and they put in MIkki Moore didn't he have some type of career year averaging like 11+? What happened to that guy now?

Dexmor · Post #22 » by **Dexmor** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:53 pm

Let me first start off by saying to those who didn't read all of it because it was long KIDD IS WAY BETTER THEN FARMAR. The thing is Farmar is 20 years old and Kidd is about 35 or turning 35. That is the only reason why it's a question.
Kidd is defenately a 2 way player. Defensive stats do not in any way tell the whole story. Kidd is always a defensive first or second team and this year his D is still top notch even if he doesn't get alot of steals. He can still stay with the fast pg's and guard sg's and sf's and in the case of the Suns pf's.
Alot of people seem to think if Farmar played more he wouldn't be able to keep up with his point per minute average but I disagree. He is a shooter and when you play longer you get into a rythum. Also increased playing time will probably increase his development and he will be in the game longer so he will have more plays called for him and overall be in it way more. I mean he is averaging 10 points in 20 minutes not 5 points in 8 minutes were I am saying xthat by 4 and he is a 20 point a game scorer.
I tried to make this a what's better a 15 year career of Farmar or a 5 year career of Kidd but somebody said they wouldn't trade Odom for Kidd? That is crazy. I would trade Odom for Kidd in a heartbeat and I would add Kwame's expiring plus a draft pick. That would be a great trade and a pretty good lineup of

Bynum
Ronny
Ariza-I am just pretending on this Phil was a good judge of talent
Kobe
Kidd

I think Ronny can't play 35 min due to heart problems but with Kobe and Kidd playing on the same team in L.A. we would have no problem getting a free agent to sign for less with us. Webber would have came if Kidd was in the pic imo. Plus even if we went at times with Luke and Ariza at pf with a pg who averages almost 9 boards and a sg who rebounds like a forward you can get by at pf anyway. Besides pf's are a lost art.

Lakers05 · Post #23 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:53 pm

A triple-double does not improve your chances to win any more than a guy with a statsline that gives you the same PER as that triple-double, assuming that both were playing the same number of minutes, and have the same OPP PER.

Dexmor · Post #24 » by **Dexmor** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:55 pm

Kidd could fit into any offense. He would learn the triangle in half an hour. They probably wouldn't even run it or if they did only when they didn't have a fast break opp or when Kidd sits.

Lakers05 · Post #25 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:56 pm

Also, plenty of guys have had career seasons without Kidd. It's called contract year syndrome.

Post #26 » by **LLcoleJ** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:12 pm

Kidd is much better - its called HOF syndrome.

Lakers05 · Post #27 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:16 pm

What a guy's accomplished in the past has absolutely no relevance to what he does now and in the future.

Post #28 » by **LLcoleJ** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:23 pm

Lakers05 wrote:What a guy's accomplished in the past has absolutely no relevance to what he does now and in the future.

He is currently averaging close to a triple double. I love Farmar but he will never reach those stats

djericho · Post #29 » by **djericho** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:26 pm

Lakers05 wrote:What a guy's accomplished in the past has absolutely no relevance to what he does now and in the future.

The question was who's the better player. Hands down it's Kidd. Call me when Farmar's a threat to post up a tripple double. till then Kidd is the better player on a bad team. It's just that his contract is way ugly that makes any trade (with the lakers at least) impossible.

Impossible?

yes, even with Kwame's expiring (which in a trade with the nets we'd need a big a la Collins to be inlcuded) we don't have anything the nets need or want. Don't believe me? ask their forum board.

Lakers05 · Post #30 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:36 pm

Why should Farmar have to average a triple-double to be equal to Kidd? If he averaged 16, 7 and 4, would he be any worse? Nope, because in the end, if you add all the stats together, they tend to have the same impact(assuming that the other guys keep their stats of course.)

blix · Post #31 » by **blix** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:40 pm

Lakers05 wrote:Why should Farmar have to average a triple-double to be equal to Kidd? If he averaged 16, 7 and 4, would he be any worse?

Would you type this again so that I know you did it on purpose?

Post #32 » by **LLcoleJ** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:43 pm

^^^ LOL

Lakers05 · Post #33 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:43 pm

Yes, I typed it. And most likely, you will never be able to prove which statsline is better, Kidd's or that, ASSUMING everything else being equal(of course, there are "subtle" things like FG% and TOs, for the sake of argument, assume that the PERs are the same.)

Lakers05 · Post #34 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:47 pm

Phil_2.0 wrote:^^^ LOL

Weren't you also the one laughing at my claim that Sun Yue is better than Luke(technically, he's not better, but let's face it, he can't do any worse than Luke at this point), at my suggestion of trading Odom for Yi and capspace to sign Gerald Wallace?

Since you're a mod, I'm going to have to be careful with my words, but let's just say, my ideas are never outrageous, once you really take a look at them.

Post #35 » by **LLcoleJ** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:50 pm

Lakers05 wrote:Yes, I typed it. And most likely, you will never be able to prove which statsline is better, Kidd's or that, ASSUMING everything else being equal(of course, there are "subtle" things like FG% and TOs, for the sake of argument, assume that the PERs are the same.)

So you make a claim that when people switch teams or their roles are changed that they dont carry over with the same impact. Yet, you think that Farmar stats would improve that much while Kidds would go down ?

hmmm whatever. You can think what you like.

Kidd is a far better PG than Farmar and I am a big UCLA, Laker fan who is very fond of young Jordan.

Post #36 » by **LLcoleJ** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:51 pm

Lakers05 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Weren't you also the one laughing at my claim that Sun Yue is better than Luke(technically, he's not better, but let's face it, he can't do any worse than Luke at this point), at my suggestion of trading Odom for Yi and capspace to sign Gerald Wallace?

Since you're a mod, I'm going to have to be careful with my words, but let's just say, my ideas are never outrageous, once you really take a look at them.

I dont think I have ever spoken about Sun Yue so I dont know who you are talking about.

Me being a mod shouldnt have any effect on who you respond to me or anyone. Unless you were planning on making personal attacks and mod or not that is not allowed here.

Lakers05 · Post #37 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm

Phil_2.0 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So you make a claim that when people switch teams or their roles are changed that they dont carry over with the same impact. Yet, you think that Farmar stats would improve that much while Kidds would go down ?

hmmm whatever. You can think what you like.

Kidd is a far better PG than Farmar and I am a big UCLA, Laker fan who is very fond of young Jordan.

I didn't say Kidd's stats would go down. I said it would most likely remain the same(in theory at least.) As far as to where I got my idea, look at the Boston's Big Three. All of their PERs are down. However, since KG is a great defender, their OPP PER also went down, which kind of minimized that.

blix · Post #38 » by **blix** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 pm

Lakers05 wrote:Yes, I typed it. And most likely, you will never be able to prove which statsline is better, Kidd's or that, ASSUMING everything else being equal(of course, there are "subtle" things like FG% and TOs, for the sake of argument, assume that the PERs are the same.)

Take a step back and think about what you are asking there. We're not talking about in 5 years or even 3, we're talking now.

Now - Jason Kidd is a better player. Period. Don't believe me? Ask 50 people and tell me what 49 of them say. Then tell Mrs. Farmar that, with all due respect, she's wrong

Now - Adding Kidd to Bynum and Kobe would be sick. Absolutely disgusting to watch. I would probably be semi-erect for the rest of the season.

Now - Kidd is an impact player. Farmar is a very nice and talented player with tons of upside. There is a difference there. I love Farmar, I do - and it's no contest over which one I would take.

For the record, you don't have to choose your words carefully with Phil, just don't act like a child. Which you haven't. Healthy debate is encouraged, just remember we're all friends here......sorry for my comment, I was just giving you a bit-o-$hit because the way you wrote it was funny. I knew what you meant, even though I still disagree.

Lakers05 · Post #39 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:58 pm

Phil_2.0 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I dont think I have ever spoken about Sun Yue so I dont know who you are talking about.

Me being a mod shouldnt have any effect on who you respond to me or anyone. Unless you were planning on making personal attacks and mod or not that is not allowed here.

Not personal attacks, but careful about words which may seem like bragging or condescending. As far as Sun Yue, not directly, but I do remember a comment by me that says that Yue would be better than Luke, and you claimed it as being outrageous.

Lakers05 · Post #40 » by **Lakers05** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:03 pm

[quote="blix"][/quote]

If we are talking about who's better based on their current stats, you'll get no argument from me. I've also conceded that most likely, Farmar wouldn't be able to put up stats such that he'll be as good as Kidd, if both were on THIS team.

However, if Farmar were on the Nets, and whether Farmar could put up stats such that he'll be as good as Kidd, then that's a very debatable point.