ImageImageImageImageImage

Raptors' True MVP?

Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

User avatar
juucer
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,303
And1: 2
Joined: Nov 27, 2004

Raptors' True MVP? 

Post#1 » by juucer » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:01 pm

Interesting article today on TSN.ca for all the stat-monkeys:

Click Here

In their book The Wages of Wins, economists David Berri, Martin Schmidt and Stacey Brook have attempted to make it easier to determine what it means to be valuable. The trio has established a formula that attempts to determine a player's true value to his team... So in order to measure a player's performance, Berri and his tream created the following simplified formula:

Win Score = Points + Rebounds + Steals +
User avatar
Rapcity_11
RealGM
Posts: 24,803
And1: 9,694
Joined: Jul 26, 2006
     

 

Post#2 » by Rapcity_11 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:04 pm

I'm sorry but any stat that says calderon is more valuable than bosh is a joke. Watch the games...Bosh is our MVP.
User avatar
mintsa
Head Coach
Posts: 6,694
And1: 3,749
Joined: Jun 28, 2001

 

Post#3 » by mintsa » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:06 pm

CB4 is the MVP, hands down, case closed.
User avatar
galeon110
Analyst
Posts: 3,532
And1: 631
Joined: Jul 27, 2006
Location: Toronto

 

Post#4 » by galeon110 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:07 pm

TJ was our MVP. If he didn't get injured, he'd most likely still be the MVP
Image
gcsw
Starter
Posts: 2,256
And1: 74
Joined: Jul 03, 2006

 

Post#5 » by gcsw » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:17 pm

galeon110 wrote:TJ was our MVP. If he didn't get injured, he'd most likely still be the MVP


If you are talking about TJ our MVP in costing us close games, then definitely yes, he is the most valuable player to make a team lose.
User avatar
Mascot
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,481
And1: 1,009
Joined: May 29, 2007
Location: Newfoundland
Contact:
   

 

Post#6 » by Mascot » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:18 pm

its because we have one point guard right now is the reason

bring tj back and then combine both of them and then forderon is our mvp
Image
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

 

Post#7 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:23 pm

They're definitely 1A and 1B. With TJ going down, Jose has pretty much saved our season. Replace him with average PG play backed up by Dixon and we would currently be well below .500.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


April 14th, 2019.
MentalPowerHouse
Ballboy
Posts: 10
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 14, 2005

 

Post#8 » by MentalPowerHouse » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:30 pm

How can you say TJ was our MVP when we are fine without him. Not bashing him, we need him, our bench is terrible without a legit PG but we are stilling winning games.

To me its pretty clear, if Bosh went down for an extended amount of time we'd be in serious trouble.
Champipple
Rookie
Posts: 1,007
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 17, 2004

 

Post#9 » by Champipple » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Does everything here have to turn into a TJ versus Jose arguement? :roll:
User avatar
wade2bosh
General Manager
Posts: 9,951
And1: 5
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
Location: Gore Road

 

Post#10 » by wade2bosh » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:32 pm

Calderon produces more wins than Bosh. MVP - NO.
3inakey
Analyst
Posts: 3,135
And1: 1
Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Location: Toronto

 

Post#11 » by 3inakey » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:38 pm

We are a high point-guard usage team. Last year, Bosh went down for a while and TJ or Forderon kept us at .500. This year Bosh is healthy at the right time. I'm of the opinion that with our roster, a healthy Bosh and TJ without Calderon for whatever reason, we'd be about where we are. We only really start to realize our potential when Forderon AND Bosh are at full power. IMO of course.

Teams that can close the talent gap at our two best positions are tough matchups for us. At that point, we need Bargs to step up, which is when we can really make some noise.
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

 

Post#12 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:39 pm

galeon110 wrote:TJ was our MVP. If he didn't get injured, he'd most likely still be the MVP


We all get it. You prefer TJ. It has absolutely nothing to do with this thread but that doesn't seem to matter to you.

Now do you have anything else to add on any other subject... ever?
Shaazzam
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 28,444
And1: 9,517
Joined: Nov 28, 2005
   

 

Post#13 » by Shaazzam » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:39 pm

Our offence is primarily based on two things. Top notch PG play in which Forderon make almost all of the decisions, and a bonafide goto guy in CB4. Considering that somebody has to get the ball to Chris, it's not surprising to me that when you quantify stats that the PG's get listed as the real reasons for "winning."
Imageprops to Turbo_Zone
Raptorman_ca
Senior
Posts: 525
And1: 67
Joined: Nov 22, 2001
Contact:
 

 

Post#14 » by Raptorman_ca » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Take Bosh out, and we suck.

Take Jose off, and we suck...but not as much.

Bosh gets the edge.
Life-aigo
Ballboy
Posts: 4
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 20, 2007

Its a question of perspective 

Post#15 » by Life-aigo » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:46 pm

We all see things differently based on our own perspective. Essentially, we could all agree that if Bosh was absent for any period of time the team would struggle but the same could be said for Calderon...especially with TJ's absence.
Ultimately, I think we're all missing the point. Both players think team first so this dicsussion about who is more important to the team is irrelevant. Furthermore, if the players ever though this way the team would be in big trouble.
The_Hater
GHOAT (Greatest Hater Of All Time)
Posts: 85,319
And1: 40,062
Joined: May 23, 2001
     

Re: Its a question of perspective 

Post#16 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:51 pm

Life-aigo wrote:We all see things differently based on our own perspective. Essentially, we could all agree that if Bosh was absent for any period of time the team would struggle but the same could be said for Calderon...especially with TJ's absence.
Ultimately, I think we're all missing the point. Both players think team first so this dicsussion about who is more important to the team is irrelevant. Furthermore, if the players ever though this way the team would be in big trouble.


Your kind of level-headed, well thought out, reasonable posts aren't welcome around here mister....
Raptors90102
Banned User
Posts: 5,050
And1: 3
Joined: Feb 27, 2007

Re: Its a question of perspective 

Post#17 » by Raptors90102 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:54 pm

Life-aigo wrote:We all see things differently based on our own perspective. Essentially, we could all agree that if Bosh was absent for any period of time the team would struggle but the same could be said for Calderon...especially with TJ's absence.
Ultimately, I think we're all missing the point. Both players think team first so this dicsussion about who is more important to the team is irrelevant. Furthermore, if the players ever though this way the team would be in big trouble.


Get your gahbage outta here.. We don't like reasonable thinkers on this board.
cdel00
Head Coach
Posts: 6,739
And1: 424
Joined: Apr 12, 2007

 

Post#18 » by cdel00 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:56 pm

Calderon is valuable no doubt. Bosh is the MVP of the team though. What stats don't show is the little things - like double teams drawn, like number of times opposing starter is forced into foul trouble, like altered shots, like and1 fouls (I hate seeing the Raps give an and1 foul), etc


Bosh is MVP


.
Life-aigo
Ballboy
Posts: 4
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 20, 2007

 

Post#19 » by Life-aigo » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:56 pm

Yeah, which is why I read the board less and less and almost never post (as proved by my scout status :-))
CreaM
Banned User
Posts: 6,062
And1: 1,163
Joined: Mar 14, 2007

 

Post#20 » by CreaM » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:01 pm

Stupid stat. Bosh is this teams MVP by a mile.

Return to Toronto Raptors