Marvin Williams or Josh Smith...

[Champs04bigshot]

I am a big Marvin Williams fan and try and watch him play as much as i can on league pass. Being an outsider to this team i wanted to hear what you guys think about who you like better or who is more valuable to your team now and in the future?

I know Josh Smith gets a lot more hype because of the dunking and shot blocking but when i watch sometimes he forces it to much and Marvin is more of a consistant shooter who doesnt force much.

Once again i am an outsider and dont see that much or your games but love the direction of your team and just curious on your thoughts of the two with who is more important and who you guys like better.

[JoshB914]

I'd like to keep both of them. But Smoove is the far better prospect. He's really expanded his game from just dunks and blocks.

[High 5]

Josh Smith all day. All Marvin really has on him is jump shooting. Not a knock on Marvin, though, just a lot of praise for Smith. I hope we can keep both.

[BAMABIRD]

I like Marvin but J Smoove baby!

[NWO4Life]

I think that Josh is more advanced than Marvin right now. However, Marvin still has a higher ceiling in my opinion. Marvin is improving... not as rapidly as Josh but his growth has been quite substantial. It's just that the nuances of his game are overshadowed by Josh's flash. Still think Marvin's body will improve and continue to fillout. His game will too. Who will have the better career? Hard to say. They will play w/ Horford the rest of their careers. I believe with a little tweaking all three of them could have a ring or two before its all over.

[Skyhawk1]

Marvin will be a better player though. He's got the fundamentals. He's more consistent ( Which is easy compared to J. Smith, look at how bad this guy is shooting lately ). I think he's getting better faster than Smith did, and since we got no PG, I believe Marvin's best days lay ahead of him, maybe as soon as we have a good PG. I'd trade J. Smith for at least 15 PFs in the league, his bricks and TOs get on my nerves. It's not like he sometimes forces things, it's just his out of control way of playing the game. I'm so happy that the NBA has decided not to let HS players enter the draft anymore. With few exceptions, they're so raw and reckless with the ball. Smith is a good example.

[evildallas]

Both are excellent athletes, but I side with Josh Smith. Marvin's got a sweeter shooting touch, but Josh has the intensity and drive to be as good as possible. If I saw that same intensity and drive in Marvin then I think he'd soon be the mentioned in the same light as Chris Paul, Lebron, Bosh, Carmelo, and Wade. Sadly, I don't see that intensity and think that he'll be a very nice player, but never elite. Josh has several aspects of his game to clean up (shooting and ball handling), but he's a lot closer to reaching the upper echelon because of how much he puts into getting better.

I do want to keep both. I'm hopeful that Josh will work on his shot in the off season (not just outside, but inside also) and Marvin will work on his range and recognition. If Marvin was stroking the 3 ball and moving to open areas as the shot clock winds down (like Josh does) I think that Atlanta would be a more successful team.

[HoopsGuru25]

Sky why would you rather have Marvin if he has better fundamentals and is still a worse player. Josh Smith WILL be an All-Star once he understands the mental aspect of the game(primarily shot selection). Marvin is a very nice complimentary player but based on some of his quotes he also has the mindset of a complimentary player...not some one who was taken with the highest pick in franchise history. When he had his 33 point game he said that he just wants to take pressure off JJ and Smoove...he should actually want to be better than them.

[Amen316]

Marvin more than likely will never be a starter unless he is traded to a team to fill an injury or cap space need.
Josh always seems to be one tick from being a complete train wreck and 10x the upside of Marvin.

With that being said I would teach Marvin how to play and get as much as I could on a trade for Josh.

Thats all in consideration we are not talking about winning of course...

[conleyorbust]

Well at this point I don't think its up for debate who the better player is. Marv's PER is near 17 and Smith's is above 20. Smith does try and force his game on offense way too much but on a team that struggles to score like ours, I'd like to see Marv "force it" a lot more than he's done because he has the tools to be a solid pure scorer.

As far as long term, I'd like to see them both stick around for a while. They are both young and fairly raw and neither has played with a point guard which could turn Smith into an unstoppable dunk maching and would help Marv get a few more open Js once he grasps the concept of moving off the ball a little better.

[Skyhawk1]

Sky why would you rather have Marvin if he has better fundamentals and is still a worse player. Josh Smith WILL be an All-Star once he understands the mental aspect of the game(primarily shot selection).

The thing here is, I believe J. Smith's basketball IQ is horrible. His court vision, ball handling, shot selection will prevent him from getting to be the All'Star you think he could be. Just think of that, every 4th quarter, he tries to be the man by standind beyond the arc to hit the closer 3. That's poor judgement since he's as bad as it gets beyond the 3pt line. Another thing, this past game against Portland. He's got the ball in the paint, then he tries a fade way pass accros the court that hits the 5 th row. A good/fundamental/solid player would know that you don't do that at the point of the game. I never forgot an interview I saw with J. Mashburn. He went on to say that there were moments when he was playing, he'd allow himself to take tough shots or try high risk plays, but there were moments he'd get himself together and go for what made him great. I just don't think J. Smith is strong enough to play to his strengths in the same way at all.

[JoshB914]

I don't know Skyhawk. He will be one of the first guys out for this year's game. He has improved so much in all of those areas. His court vision: he has been making some fantastic passes recently. Ball handling: he runs the breaks at times and has also stopped trying to dribble behind his back. Shot selection: also much better. Look at his stats since his disastrous start, he has shot well in nearly every game.

Remember Smoove is 22. And despite all his faults he has done wonders for this team. He has also shown marked improvement every single year of his career. I see no reason to believe he will not continue to improve upon his current weaknesses and become one of the great forwards in the NBA.

[HoopsGuru25]

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The thing here is, I believe J. Smith's basketball IQ is horrible. His court vision, ball handling, shot selection will prevent him from getting to be the All'Star you think he could be. Just think of that, every 4th quarter, he tries to be the man by standind beyond the arc to hit the closer 3. That's poor judgement since he's as bad as it gets beyond the 3pt line. Another thing, this past game against Portland. He's got the ball in the paint, then he tries a fade way pass accros the court that hits the 5 th row. A good/fundamental/solid player would know that you don't do that at the point of the game. I never forgot an interview I saw with J. Mashburn. He went on to say that there were moments when he was playing, he'd allow himself to take tough shots or try high risk plays, but there were moments he'd get himself together and go for what made him great. I just don't think J. Smith is strong enough to play to his strengths in the same way at all.

Josh Smith has poor fundamentals but you also must remember that he would be a senior in college(if he wanted to)if he went to Indiana. I think his poor fundamentals are from playing on a loaded highschool team(that destroyed every one they played) and playing under a bad NBA coach who allowed Josh to play reckless and outside of his limits(especially in the 2nd half of his 2nd year). It also doesn't help that the 1st two veteran leaders he played with are Antoine Walker and Al Harrington(two chuckers). You do have to give him some credit...he has come a very log way from his rookie year. Smith has improved in each of his 4 seasons and I think he has the mindset(not necessarily not the skillset)of a star player. He also has a good work ethic based on what I have read. The thing I worry about with Marvin(and Horford to a certain extent)is that they will always be too passive to be star players. The transition from going to a great college team to a bad pro team can be pretty tough. Marvin's quotes lead me to believe that he is satisfied with being a side kick.

[JoshB914]

Hoops brings up a good point about the players around Smoove. He played AAU with Morris and Howard so I'd imagine he spent a lot of time on the perimeter.

[conleyorbust]

Skyhawk, I think Smith is our second best facilitator. His court vision certainly isn't a problem. Shot selection, yes but until we run an offense that allows him to make cuts to the basket or work inside more, its gonna be hard for him to take a lot of good shots. I think the pass you are thinking of was a cross court pass from Joe that got picked off by Webster for and Smith blocked the layup.

Regardless though, I don't see anyone else on the team outside of Josh, Joe, and occasionally AJ try and be aggressive when the team needs it. Marv certainly doesn't try and take over when we need it, neither does Horford. Josh needs to polish some stuff off but you make is seem like Smith's development is through and Marv's has just begun.

[NDaATL]

Just think of that, every 4th quarter, Smith tries to be the man by standind beyond the arc to hit the closer 3.

What Smith have you been watching? You must be talking about November or last season because Smith has improved his shot selection TREMENDOUSLY recently, he only takes threes at the end of the shot clock now. Making a comment like this makes me think that you haven't been watching the games.

To the OP, Smith is easily the more valuable piece and it's not even close. Marvin is essentially a jumpshooter. Skyhawk talks about Smith not being a great dribbler or passer, neither is Marvin. And that's completely false anyway because Smith is a very good passer for his position, almost anyone who has seen him play would agree completely. Smith is also a much better defender. Skyhawk just has some kind of vendetta against Smith and he always bashes him for no reason. Other than Skyhawk, I don't think there is one Hawks fan who posts here that would rather keep Marvin over Smith.

[High 5]

Marvin more than likely will never be a starter unless he is traded to a team to fill an injury or cap space need.
Josh always seems to be one tick from being a complete train wreck and 10x the upside of Marvin.

With that being said I would teach Marvin how to play and get as much as I could on a trade for Josh.

Thats all in consideration we are not talking about winning of course...

I really hope you aren't a Hawks fan.

[Skyhawk1]

I've said that before. I'd love to see J. Smith as good as you can. Marvin won't try to drible or pass for one reason, he can't. Smith can't either, the numbers show it clearly. He avgs 3.5 apg and 3.41 TOpg. That's horrible for a PF. I can live with 3 TOs a game as long as he shoots over 50% and he's not even doubled like most good PFs in the league are. The guy is our starter PF and avgs 8.1 rpg. How many times have you seen All-Star PFs beyond the 3 pt arc ? Have you seen Duncan, Boozer, and many others? no. Have you seen R. Wallaca, Dirk, yes. Because they can shoot from there. But my whole argument here is, what makes a great player great is the fact he knows his strenght. He doesn't put himself in a position where he's not a threat and will hurt his team. Smith does that over and over. I hope I'm wrong guys, but I think we're going to regret the contract we'll give him.

[NDaATL]

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I really hope you aren't a Hawks fan.

He's a PHX fan who I've seen bash the Hawks more than anyone on RealGM. He always comes here with smartass comments to try an rile us up. Some of the things he's said, he should be banned for. I'm not sure why exactly he always comes here to bash us, I think he was a big JJ fan and has haterade in his system ever since.

[NDaATL]

I've said that before. I'd love to see J. Smith as good as you can. Marvin won't try to drible or pass for one reason, he can't. Smith can't either, the numbers show it clearly. He avgs 3.5 apg and 3.41 TOpg. That's horrible for a PF. I can live with 3 TOs a game as long as he shoots over 50% and he's not even doubled like most good PFs in the league are. The guy is our starter PF and avgs 8.1 rpg.

Smith is a good passer and that isn't even in question. Most of his turnovers aren't even on passes, it's just that your blind hatred of him makes his bad passes stand out every time you see one.

How many times have you seen All-Star PFs beyond the 3 pt arc ?

Why do you keep saying this? This tells me that you haven't been watching the Hawks in the past 2 months because Smith has basically completely stopped shooting threes. His shot selection has been much better. He had a rough November and that was it. And I have yet to see you mention anything about his impact on defense. Everytime he sits down, teams just "happen" to start getting layups. He is a VITAL reason for our much improved defense this year.