OT: Phillies Sign Pedro Feliz

[Sixerscan]

Does Feliz have materially better power numbers than Helms?

Helms has a higher career slugging percentage, so no.

Plus you're ignoring Dobbs

And is material your word of the week or something?

We got a grand total of eleven HR's at 3B last season - is it reasonable to expect that - based on the fact that Feliz has hit more than 20 HR's in each of the last 4 seasons - Feliz will double that amount?

If he gets 557 ABs again yes.

But based on his career rates, it is reasonable to expect Helms to hit about 19 home runs.

Don't forget Abe Nunez had 312 of those ABs last year. He's really bad at hitting home runs. Dobbs/Helms against their strong sides could definitely combine for over 20+ HRs with 557 ABs.

And based on the offensive players that will be getting on base in front of him (as opposed to a lackluster Giants offense), it is reasonable to expect that Feliz could produce at least the 84 RBI's that he has averaged over the last four seasons?

What does better players being in front of him have to do with anything? He is who he is. If you batted him 4 behind Rollins/Utley/Howard he could push 100+ RBI if he got 557 ABs, that wouldn't make him any better of a player.

Based on his team independent stats, he will be a good amount worse offensively than a Dobbs/Helms combo. He will make up for that defensively, but not enough to be any more than another bandaid on the position. And when a team has a limited budget, a bandaid like this is a waste of limited money.

Did Helms do anything at the plate last season (or in his recent career, for that matter) to suggest that in areas other than power, that he is a materially better hitter than Feliz?

Yes, his out making percentage is 30 points better on his career than Feliz's.

Lastly - have I represented the signing of Feliz as the arrival of some kind of All-Star? The guy is slated to hit seventh in our lineup...

Did I say you had?

The way that you rip at my posts sometimes really makes me wonder whether some of your responses are less about the content than they are about the poster.

So it bothers you that I actually respond to the things you say rather than just repeat the same things over and over...

[bebopdeluxe]

Sixerscan:

I'm not sure if I agree with your assertion that a Helms/Dobbs combo will be better offensively than a Feliz/Dobbs combo...for me, I prefer 20 HR with 557AB's/70 SO to 5 HR with 280 AB's/62 SO from my 3rd baseman. Would I like to see a higher OBP from Feliz? Sure. I'd also like to see a higher OBP from my leadoff hitter, but I can't argue with the overall production that we got from Rollins last season.

I like that we have improved our defense a lot with Feliz.

I like that we don't need to carry somebody like Nunez on the roster anymore - we can now have a more productive offensive player in that spot.

I believe that Manuel and Thompson might actually be able to improve Feliz's offensive production - as they have done with many other players recently.

So...as far as this move is concerned, we will just have to agree to disagree.

And - lastly - what is this "and is material your word of the week?" comment all about...huh?

I have been very respectful of you and your posts in this thread, but this is the second time in a week that you are taking shots at me. If you can't leave stuff like that out, I would just prefer that you ignore my posts - OK?

[Sixerscan]

Sixerscan:

I'm not sure if I agree with your assertion that a Helms/Dobbs combo will be better offensively than a Feliz/Dobbs combo...

I assume Feliz (.708 OPS last year) is going to be the full time 3B, unlike the other scenario where Dobbs (.808 vrs RHP last year) and Helms (.790 vrs LHP last year) platoon. That's a pretty huge drop off.

for me, I prefer 20 HR with 557AB's/70 SO to 5 HR with 280 AB's/62 SO from my 3rd baseman.

You're just going to keep repeating that no matter what I say aren't you?

Like I already said, Dobbs and Helms with 557 ABs against their strong sides would have blown Feliz out of the water.

Would I like to see a higher OBP from Feliz? Sure. I'd also like to see a higher OBP from my leadoff hitter, but I can't argue with the overall production that we got from Rollins last season.

the 54 point difference between them is the same as the difference between Rollins and Ryan Howard.

I like that we have improved our defense a lot with Feliz.

same

I like that we don't need to carry somebody like Nunez on the roster anymore - we can now have a more productive offensive player in that spot.

A pet rock could out produce Nunez.

I believe that Manuel and Thompson might actually be able to improve Feliz's offensive production - as they have done with many other players recently.

He's 31 years old. He's not going to completely revamp his approach.

So...as far as this move is concerned, we will just have to agree to disagree.

K

And - lastly - what is this "and is material your word of the week?" comment all about...huh?

I noticed that you repeated that word a lot during our conversation, so I was curious. If you're trying to expand your vocabulary I think that's great.

I have been very respectful of you and your posts in this thread, but this is the second time in a week that you are taking shots at me.

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but if I took a shot at you I'm sorry.

[freshie2]

Santana being dealt to the Mets kind of trumps this discussion, doesn't it??

Feliz is an upgrade, but it's going to be quite a battle to win the division now...Santana on that staff is huge.

[tk76]

Santana being dealt to the Mets kind of trumps this discussion, doesn't it??

Feliz is an upgrade, but it's going to be quite a battle to win the division now...Santana on that staff is huge.

The ridiculously lopsided salary structure of MLB- as displayed by the NY teams- keeps me from investing much as a Phillies fan.

I'll root if they win, but if one team gets to have double the salary its not so much of a sporty as a fix. Sort of like rooting for the Generals against the Trotters. It would be even more of a joke to try and be a fan of a small market team. You can win a bit, but the house is rigged against you.

[bebopdeluxe]

Sixerscan:

I saw a recent post somewhere where they looked at several guys who came to the Phillies recently from other teams (like Dobbs, Werth and Rowand) who saw some of their key numbers (like OBP and OPS) go up like 30-50 percentage points, while other guys (like Jason Michaels, for example) who saw those same numbers drop when they left.

Again, a very unscientific sample size, but these were not 22-year-olds...and the hope is that Charlie and Milt can tweak Feliz's apprach enough to improve on some of those admittedly horrific numbers.

If they can just get Feliz to have just a touch more discipline at the plate (say, an OBP in the .330-.340 range), it would certainly help...I kind of look it at the same way as, say, Korver versus Thad...you can potentially expect Thad's jumper and court awareness to get better with experience and coaching (i.e. Feliz' plate discipline), but it might be difficult to expect Korver's lateral quickness to improve materially at this point in his career (i.e. Helms' fielding, for example).

And, as I said in a prior post, I understand where you are coming from about taking the $4.25 million a year that they have to give Feliz away from things like upgrading the pitching staff or building out our Latin scouting operation (including serious signing bonuses...I think Carrasco was one of the only Latin players that they committed some serious coin to sign...and what a surprise - he's our #1 prospect). I guess that I am not as confident as you seem to be about Helms having a bounceback season, and improving our infield defense (by signing Feliz) seems like a good second-derivative way to help our pitchers out.

[freshie2]

-= original quote snipped =-



The ridiculously lopsided salary structure of MLB- as displayed by the NY teams- keeps me from investing much as a Phillies fan.

I'll root if they win, but if one team gets to have double the salary its not so much of a sporty as a fix. Sort of like rooting for the Generals against the Trotters. It would be even more of a joke to try and be a fan of a small market team. You can win a bit, but the house is rigged against you.

I pretty much feel the same way. Grew up a yankee fan, but always followed the Phillies as well. I really have moved away from baseball more than any other sport over the past decade. My son likes the Phillies, so I do follow them and if I have a rooting interest, it is for them. Baseball's financial structure appears to work for the owners as they get paid by the big market clubs, so it's tough to argue, but I don't like it.

[GswStorm3]

Feliz can pick it great at third base but you guys are going to be pulling your hair out over Feliz's terrible plate discipline. He's a total rally killer with RISP so anything higher the 8th in the batting order is asking for trouble.