Scary Rebounding Stat

-SDU- · Post #1 » by **-SDU-** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:55 am

the last 3 games the suns have been outrebounded on the offensive glass 61 to 11

thats just absolutely amazingly terrible
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the fact that we can still win those 3 games despite giving our opponents 62 extra shots than us, is also equally amazing and shows how deadly we can be on the offensive end

BUT, we MUST get that offensive rebounding count under control if we are going to beat the elite teams in the league in a 7 game series

second chance points and worse, fouls on amare on broken plays, will kill us in the playoffs

mkot · Post #2 » by **mkot** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:34 am

To be honest, if we don't get this fix, I don't see us getting out of the 1st round. 61-11 the past 3 games? That's ridiculous.

walkingart · Post #3 » by **walkingart** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:00 am

blah, blah, blah...cry me a river. If you want the Suns to be a better rebounding team, start a FIRE MIKE D thread.

The Suns have a specific style, they play team defense where the weak side defenders come across to help all the time, ie the high number of blocked shots, but it leaves them out of position to block out. They also release and run the court when a shot goes up, leaving them shorthanded to grab rebounds. All that being said, they do contest most shots and teams shooting percentages reflect that.

mkot · Post #4 » by **mkot** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:12 am

I understand it's the system, but still, we're talking about getting out-rebounded by 61-11, that's HUGE. That's just too HUGE of a gap for any team to win a playoff series. Again, I talked about getting the numbers close, we don't necessarily win the battle, but we need to keep it respectable. And it doesn't start with firing the coach, we just need to get Boris to step up his rebounding, play more Boris-Marion-Amare/Skinner as our the frontcourt, and sent all 5 guys to hit the board in crunch time (like we did in the last 8 minutes of the Cleveland game where we gave up 0 offensive board). We can do it, guys just have to do it when they have to.

Post #5 » by **KJ7** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:34 am

Our whole front court hasn't been great when it comes to rebounding latley. I don't think we will be this lax against the better teams.

nashill · Post #6 » by **nashill** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:47 pm

KJ7 wrote:Our whole front court hasn't been great when it comes to rebounding latley. I don't think we will be this lax against the better teams.

Lets see this thursday..can somebody post some rebounding stats last year?

eastsidecrossover · Post #7 » by **eastsidecrossover** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:14 pm

I didn't know Justin Timberlake was in this forum. Welcome cry me a river boy. Break off some toones for us man.

Anyway, is that stat right? I guess so considering it is offensive rebounding. As I watched some highlights last night, it looked like atlanta attacked the boards because they could not buy a basket. When that happens, you start closing in, trying to get closer shots most of the time. Its not as big of deal as most think. This may be one of those times where we have not rebounded that well.

Remember besides our style, we are not that big. We also shot a higher % than most teams so we are going to lose that battle most nights.

However, they have to do better, and the damn coaching staff is not doing enought about it the past 4 years.

impulsenine · Post #8 » by **impulsenine** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:16 pm

Isn't some of that due to our ridiculous (league-leading) block rate? Or for that matter, that one sequence yesterday in which Atlanta got about thirty layup attempts in the same play?

pidi · Post #9 » by **pidi** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:23 pm

walkingart · Post #10 » by **walkingart** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:17 pm

eastsidecrossover wrote:I didn't know Justin Timberlake was in this forum. Welcome cry me a river boy. Break off some toones for us man.

Cry Me a River was a song first recorded by Ella Fitzgerald in 1961. Sorry, but I can't bust out any tunes for yah or for that matter name any Justin Timberlake songs.

I didn't know there were any prepubescent girls on the forum.

-SDU- · Post #11 » by **-SDU-** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:37 pm

walkingart wrote:blah, blah, blah...cry me a river. If you want the Suns to be a better rebounding team, start a FIRE MIKE D thread.

The Suns have a specific style, they play team defense where the weak side defenders come across to help all the time, ie the high number of blocked shots, but it leaves them out of position to block out. They also release and run the court when a shot goes up, leaving them shorthanded to grab rebounds. All that being said, they do contest most shots and teams shooting percentages reflect that.

we dont need to sack mike D to fix it

this team has never been outrebounded like that over 3 games, its just scary

we arent normally that bad, but a stat like that shows we need to concentrate more on it with our current squad

personally i dont mind getting outrebounded by 10 per night and sticking to our style, but thats 10overall, not an average of 20 on the offensive end

i agree its a part of our style, but not getting outrebounded by 60 over three games, even that is too much

spurs will be a great test

walkingart · Post #12 » by **walkingart** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:45 pm

I don't care that they got outrebounded as long as they keep winning. But, if you want them to rebound better then there are a few things we can do:
1. Replace our coach with someone who has a better defensive philosophy
2. Start trading our worst defensive players, sadly, Nash would have to be the first to go!

Neither of those things are going to happen, and rightfully so. Let's give this 'system' one more chance!

And as for the Spurs, we better spank them, especially if Parker doesn't play!

walkingart · Post #13 » by **walkingart** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:49 pm

also, the worse the teams we play, the more offensive rebounds we are going to give up. smart players anticipate where the ball is going when its shot, but if you play horrible shooting teams, the ball is not going to go where it should, making it harder to get a jump on it!

couple that with not blocking out and releasing on the break and it is a recipe to get killed on the boards.

guaves13 · Post #14 » by **guaves13** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:49 pm

I think that 61-11 stat is a little misleading. I would rather look at 2nd chance points. Although giving up offensive rebounds without giving up points would slow our pace.

Believe it or not I think moving Boris back into the starting lineup will help. He is one of the only guys on the team who consistently boxes out. Not to mention that GH has been releasing early for layups all season.

Rebounding is mostly about effort which I think is improving. They could still look for somebody to help but I doubt Moses Malone is walking thru that door anytime soon.

13-32 · Post #15 » by **13-32** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:13 am

It's sad that we are leading the league in blocks but are the worse rebounding team in the league

Memo -- Stop jumping to block shots every possesion and actually get in position to rebound

To many times do I see Amare trying to swat shots that have no chance of going in anyway and it puts him out of position to rebound.

ma_falaa_50 · Post #16 » by **ma_falaa_50** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:25 am

the rebounidng problem is on the whole team not just the front court players. I dont remember seeing nash, raja, or LB running down long rebounds do you? I dont see grant or raja rotating to amare's man to box them out? Fact is if the suns really tried to rebound better they could but some nihgts its just not there.

nanoclarkology · Post #17 » by **nanoclarkology** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:35 am

Duncan was tearing the league up for a bit. This will be a really good test against the Spurs who have good rebounding philosophies and will probably crash the board against us.

NapoleonII · Post #18 » by **NapoleonII** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:06 am

walkingart wrote:also, the worse the teams we play, the more offensive rebounds we are going to give up. smart players anticipate where the ball is going when its shot, but if you play horrible shooting teams, the ball is not going to go where it should, making it harder to get a jump on it!

couple that with not blocking out and releasing on the break and it is a recipe to get killed on the boards.

That makes no sense at all. Poor shooting teams would have no effect on our offensive boards, it's on the other side of the court.

And seriously reconsider talking about basketball if you don't think rebounding is important.

Yes, we're winning. But incase you haven't noticed, we've been winning a lot the past 3 years, until the playoffs come around. Notice a trend? Maybe because teams can lock on to our style for 5-7 games, and just rebound the **** out of us. Think we should give a damn about those boards? I think so.

Post #19 » by **KJ7** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:38 am

13-32 wrote:It's sad that we are leading the league in blocks but are the worse rebounding team in the league

Memo -- Stop jumping to block shots every possesion and actually get in position to rebound

To many times do I see Amare trying to swat shots that have no chance of going in anyway and it puts him out of position to rebound.

Which makes me think that this just can't be a coincidence.

The fact is I see the opposition regaining possession a lot after we block them and they all count towards offensive rebounds for the opposition.

Personally, I'm a fan of challenging shots and I think most of the shots our bigs challenge are there to be challenged. We just need some back-up and team-mates getting read to regain possession after Amare/Skinner go for the block. At the moment what happens is that Amare/Skinner come from the weakside to block and we have absolutely no-one moving to take position under the ring to either get the rebound or sweep up the blocked shot.

Part of me thinks that we are a bit unlucky in this regard, another part of me thinks that we could be doing a better job of just positioning ourselves when we know our bigs will be challenging a shot.

I just think we need some minor adjustments and we'll get there. I really think that when we are pumping a team our concentration in regards to rebounding goes out the window. We haven't given up that many offensive rebounds in tight/crucial moments of games (it's something I look for quite a lot) so I just think it's a concentration thing.

walkingart · Post #20 » by **walkingart** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:43 am

to the little corsican,

the discussion of this thread has not been that the Suns are not getting enough offensive rebounds of their own, but rather that they are giving up too many to their opponents.

it is more difficult to gain defensive rebounds against poor shooting teams for several reasons, especially with the defensive philosophy that the Suns play with. to further prove my point, look at the games we have played against Western Conference Playoff teams. In the last five games, excluding the game against Utah where Nash, Marion and Hill did not play, the Suns are only being outrebounded by 9 offensive boards a night as opposed to 20.

now, if you want to relate shooting percentages to the Suns offensive boards, its easy. if the Suns shoot 64% from the field as they did against Atlanta and the Hawks shoot a paltry 34% from the field that would give Atlanta almost twice as many opportunities to get offensive rebounds. hard to grab more offensive boards than your opponent when they have twice as many attempts to grab them!