Y is S. Williams not getting a lot of P-T?

[kevinbs]

Dunleavy and Granger are playing about 40 minutes per game lately. What gives?

[Orlock78]

Wel, U C, S.Will gets no PT cuz LB, & OB are POed cuz ur boy was smokin a J. Also, Mike D, and Danny G, are just plain smokin.




Sorry.

[count55]

Actually, I think it's Rush who's squeezing out Shawne. Kareem's been averaging about 30 minutes at the two, squeezing Jr. and Danny up into the 3 & the 4. Factor in Daniels at the swing positions, figure Foster and Murphy chew up all of the 5 and a few minutes at 4, and Shawne gets left standing when the music stops.

[old school pacer fan]

I ask myself the same thing . why is S WILLIAMS watching players HE IS BETTER THAN

[Boneman2]

There is always a reason and it is internal , leaving us to speculate. Too me Shawne seems to be in the proverbial doghouse. Of course if given the minutes he'd outperform a lot of his teammates, but Obie refuses to give him that oppurtunity. Which leads me to believe Obie is trying to instill some discipline into him because he might be immature.

[celtspacers]

I think this is something that happens all the time with the Pacers. They dont know what the hell talent is so when they actually have some. They dont know where it is. and its there in front of them.

[Scoot McGroot]

I think this is something that happens all the time with the Pacers. They dont know what the hell talent is so when they actually have some. They dont know where it is. and its there in front of them.

Or, we roll over to talent and let them do whatever they want until it reaches a boiling point (i.e. Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, Jamaal Tinsley, etc.)

[count55]

From Hollinger on Insider Free Preview

Shawne Williams, Pacers
Indiana has a fairly grim future, with the exception of two young forwards named Danny Granger and Shawne Williams. Granger is a known commodity, but Williams gets little ink. The 6-9 forward should be a junior at Memphis, but opted to enter the league early and spent much of last season on the bench.

He's an intriguing prospect because he can shoot from deep (35.8 percent career) but also gets to the rim. Right now he looks great half the time and totally out to lunch the other half, but let's see what happens in the second half of the season as he gets more experience. Certainly his 18.3 points per 40 minutes warrants attention -- guys who can score at that rate at the age of 21 are pretty rare.

As always, per 40 minute numbers tend to be fluffernutters because of the law of diminishing returns, but I don't think the overall assessment is too far off.

I think he'll be a big part of the Pacers, growing in his role over the next year or so. I also don't see an overwhelming need to choose between him and Danny. I think they can play together without getting in each other's way (unlike JO and Al), and they'll both be good NBA players...something this team desperately needs as many as they can get their hands on.

Shawne could be the reason you see the Pacers let Rush walk at the end of the season.

[mizzoupacers]

Shawne could be the reason you see the Pacers let Rush walk at the end of the season.

That reason, plus as things stand now the Pacers are already committed to more payroll next year than this year, even if we cut Harrison loose, and without factoring in whatever we end up paying our draft pick(s).



As for Williams's playing time, I don't have too much problem with the lack thereof, he has been awfully inconsistent. At least he gets in to just about every game. If/when we fall hopelessly out of the playoff picture, I hope the coaching staff commits to giving him at least 20 minutes every game no matter how he is playing. We need to develop him.

[PR07]

The better question is why is Harrison playing over Diogu?

However, Shawne is still a bit raw to be counted on consistently especially over the likes of Rush and Daniels off the bench. Even last night against the Pistons, he took a quick three with the shotclock around 20....but redeemed himself later on by getting to the rim in the blink of an eye on the fastbreak. For every good play with Shawne, there is usually one or two dumb plays that go along. He's getting just enough time to keep him somewhat sharp, but I think just practicing against the likes of Granger and Dunleavy will get him better.

[fdefore]

The better question is why is Harrison playing over Diogu?

diogu will never receive steady minutes until he learns to fully appreciate neck beards and kinetico water

However, Shawne is still a bit raw to be counted on consistently especially over the likes of Rush and Daniels off the bench. Even last night against the Pistons, he took a quick three with the shotclock around 20....but redeemed himself later on by getting to the rim in the blink of an eye on the fastbreak. For every good play with Shawne, there is usually one or two dumb plays that go along. He's getting just enough time to keep him somewhat sharp, but I think just practicing against the likes of Granger and Dunleavy will get him better.

wait why couldn't shawne be counted on? where exactly are we going with quis playing there? you know, we're kinda not heading anywhere at the moment so why not say "who cares if he's inconsistent? the only thing that'll solve that is more game time." or send him to d-league. i mean it isn't as if we're really fighting for this season. we're just outside the playoffs and stand at 19-27. what do we have to lose by playing him (and ike and frankly david) more now? it isn't as if we're winning a lot as is.

[PR07]

Whether playing to win or not is in the Pacers best interest long-term remains to be seem, but that's the direction they're going in right now. They've stated that's their direction, and they're sticking to their guns. As of now Kareem Rush and Marquis Daniels are better players and more consistent. Williams is going to have to earn his minutes, bottomline.

[old school pacer fan]

The better question is why is Harrison playing over Diogu?
However, Shawne is still a bit raw to be counted on consistently especially over the likes of Rush and Daniels off the bench. Even last night against the Pistons, he took a quick three with the shotclock around 20....but redeemed himself later on by getting to the rim in the blink of an eye on the fastbreak. For every good play with Shawne, there is usually one or two dumb plays that go along. He's getting just enough time to keep him somewhat sharp, but I think just practicing against the likes of Granger and Dunleavy will get him better.

about 6 inches

you do not get better playing against people that are not better than you.

I think I will buy the doghouse thing.

[PR07]

Granger and Dunleavy aren't better than Shawne?

If this were the case, don't you think Shawne would have a bigger role with the team? Would he not have had a couple of games where he got 4-5 fouls in 10 minutes or less of playing? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that. For as advanced as Shawne is offensively, he still has a ways to go defensively as well as overall basketball IQ.

[old school pacer fan]

Granger and Dunleavy aren't better than Shawne?

If this were the case, don't you think Shawne would have a bigger role with the team? Would he not have had a couple of games where he got 4-5 fouls in 10 minutes or less of playing? I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that. For as advanced as Shawne is offensively, he still has a ways to go defensively as well as overall basketball IQ.

OK, one at a time.

1,First, I do not know why S Williams does not have a bigger role, maybe it is the doghouse thing , cause IMO and I am not alone on this , HE IS CLEARLY A BETTER PLAYER than Danny and Dunleavy. younger more athletic and IMO a better BBall IQ considering the other 2 or at least 4-5 years older. the other 2 are finished products and S Williams is at least thier equal with a BIGGER UPSIDE.

2,If you give S Williams steady minns like the other 2 he will get his goove and will not foul like that, you can not ask him to be sharpe treating him like a yo-yo, he is quicker than both and more athletic he WILL BE A BETTER DEFENDER THAN BOTH.

Danny did the same thing with the fouls earlier and with steady minns he has improved, Dunleavy does not foul because he PLAYS NO D ANYWAY.

I would bet in the end S Williams will be a better defender than Danny which would be great cause Danny is a good defender now , S Williams allready is a better defender than no-d Dunleavy.

3,Lastly, yes S Williams is advanced offensively, just as good as both now, AND SOME 4-5 YOUNGER, and IMO a better BBall IQ now.

Have you seen Danny run over people on the break ?, have you repeatively seen Dunleavy miss people who are wide open ?, just a few examples of a good BBall IQ ?................

Do not judge S Williams until he gets steady minns and get's a GOOD FEEL for the game, the other 2 have and I AM NOT IMPRESSED.


P.S, I would love to watch them go at it in practice, I bet S Williams eats thier lunch .

[Scoot McGroot]

Granger used to dominate Ron Artest in practice, yet Ron was the better player in games.


However, the real argument going on here is whether or not Shawne is a better player RIGHT NOW than Danny and Mike. If so, then he should play. But if he has the potential to be better than Mike and Danny, but isn't better already, then should we sacrifice the potential that Danny and Mike still have to mine Shawne's potential? Should the better player play now, or should the player we think might be better by the end of their careers play now? Big question.

[old school pacer fan]

Granger used to dominate Ron Artest in practice, yet Ron was the better player in games.


However, the real argument going on here is whether or not Shawne is a better player RIGHT NOW than Danny and Mike. If so, then he should play. But if he has the potential to be better than Mike and Danny, but isn't better already, then should we sacrifice the potential that Danny and Mike still have to mine Shawne's potential? Should the better player play now, or should the player we think might be better by the end of their careers play now? Big question.

Ron said Danny would be great oneday, but dominate Ron, c'mon Scoot

We are not going nowhere, let the kid play, at best a first round exit , if we make that.

Dunleavy is having a career year, and we are losing.

Danny is having a so-so year and we are losing.

Let the KID PLAY.

? who is the better all- around player, Rush or Daniels ? . who is playing,

something aint' right here

[Scoot McGroot]

Ron said Danny would be great oneday, but dominate Ron, c'mon Scoot

Ron, as well as most of the rest of that team, said in interviews that Danny was beating Ron most everyday in practice.


Take it from Ron himself. he didn't say we were going to have a good one in Danny, he said we already had a very good one in Danny.

[fdefore]

to be fair - ron artest is certifiably crazy. just sayin...

[PR07]

Bender was supposed to be "the man" in practice too, yet, we hardly saw that in games.

If Shawne were worthier of more minutes, he'd be getting them. O'Brien is going with what he feels gives us the best options to win games now. O'Brien values his job I'm sure as much as the next guy, so he's trying to win. Shawne may very well may have more upside than Granger and Dunleavy, but potential doesn't warrant playing time when you're trying to win games. It also hurts his chances when the players he's competing with are pretty much entering the prime of their careers right now. If David Harrison isn't in O'Brien's doghouse, I don't see how Shawne could be. He must be loafing on defense in practice then because I don't see O'Brien having a personal vendetta against him for no reason. There's just guys who are worthier of minutes right now, bottomline.

To be honest, I think Dunleavy and Granger's play along with Tinsley (when he plays and is focused) are the key reasons we are still in the playoff hunt (that and bottom of the East stinks).

As for basketball IQ, Dunleavy and Granger have very high basketball IQ's on the perimeter. Both are really smart players. Shawne still looks like a deer in the headlights thinking too much instead of playing, so there's no way I'm believing he has a higher basketball IQ based on everything I've seen. Especially in Dunleavy's case, he's one of the smartest perimeter players in the NBA in my opinion.