Having Korver makes the Jazz a significantly better team.

xstockholmsyndromex · Post #41 » by **xstockholmsyndromex** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:34 pm

Korver is a better player and a better teammate. You can tell that team morale and team unity has increased once the team cancer was sent packing. I think the tension caused by Gira caused more problems then we as fans know about. The team seems happier with him gone and they are winning with Korver here.

kebutah · Post #42 » by **kebutah** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:43 pm

It hasn't hurt that we have played 8 out of 12 at home since he has been here either. Two of our road games were against the lousy Clippers and the depleted Rockets.

The Sheik · Post #43 » by **The Sheik** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:25 pm

Its not like Korver has played well at home either...he is shooting 25% from the 3 at home and nearly 50% on the road.

Denizfeital · Post #44 » by **Denizfeital** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:43 pm

Batronuj wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

It's amazing what having a free-throw shooter does for a team's confidence, Jazz up 4 with a minute to go seems much more of a sure thing then ever before with a 90% guy taking the line.

Exactly, well said.

We were winning lots of games right at the end, and suddenly we lost them. I do feel more confident now as well.

KK's trade was a fantastic one for The Jazz.

Regards,

red4hf · Post #45 » by **red4hf** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:15 pm

During the 2003-05 years Gordie coached the guards, not Corbin. Gordie, Sloan, and Miller all called out Giricek for the same thing. You can't put words in Giriceks mouth that were not in the quote. It's opinion who he was asking to treat him like a man.

Like I said, I don't think Giri cares what an assistant thinks about him......

During the two years Giricek and Bell shared the shooting guard spot, Bell had 198 assists, and Giricek had 179.

That's an entirely missleading stat, which one played more minutes?

That's like saying player A had 1000 points and player B has 1300 last season season, therefore player B is the better scorer....... And forgetting to mention that in that period player A played 30 games and player B played all 82.......

The word of the coaches should carry the bulk of the weight.

No, it should carry some of the weight as long as the Coach is being objective and equal....... Sloan isn't....... If Giri did half the things that Bell (and Korver, by the way) did out on the court he would get instantly yanked out of games....... And if playing within the team system is so important, how come Harpring gets so many minutes when he obviously doesn't play within the system on defense? Numerous Jazz players have yelled at him during games to get back to covering his man, and yet Sloan hasn't critisized him once, nor has he disciplined him.......

Does anyone really think that we were better off with Giricek instead of Korver?

That's not the point.......

gojazzmjsucks · Post #46 » by **gojazzmjsucks** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:44 am

Korver has been great!He not only is he a great scoring option, but hes spreads the D out so guys like Booz and D-Will can get lay ups. I think it makes Okur expendable not AK! My reasoning is the now we have two guards who can hit the long ball in Dwill and Korver. We dont need the money ball as much. WE need a good defender down low. We now have scorers at all positions. I think we need AK and Brew for D, but would do better with a rebounder and shot blocker down low! Okur is the man, I love um, but we would be the real deal if we had a better defender down low!

Like when Booz ripped the ball out of Timmy's hands last night! :clap:

Reckless · Post #47 » by **Reckless** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:58 am

This team is really starting to look scary, with all the shooters with the trade for korver + AK newfound ability to shoot + Memo shooting much better...we are so dangerous right now

stevebozell · Post #48 » by **stevebozell** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:05 am

Right now....hopefully our shooting doesnt go cold, because we cant stop anyone if it does.

xstockholmsyndromex · Post #49 » by **xstockholmsyndromex** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:32 am

stevebozell wrote:Right now....hopefully our shooting doesnt go cold, because we cant stop anyone if it does.

I disagree. Our defense has improved a ton, especially over the last 3 or 4 games. I think our guys are playing with much more intensity and focus. Heck, last night alone we had a number of blocked shots, 15 steals, etc. The nice thing was, even when the Spurs would make a run, the Jazz bore down and stuck in out, and didnt just roll over.

stevebozell · Post #50 » by **stevebozell** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:47 am

Playing decent D isnt enough to make me a believer after what we haev seen for the last 2 years. You can go ahead and believe though.

sodapop · Post #51 » by **sodapop** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:21 pm

red4hf wrote:Like I said, I don't think Giri cares what an assistant thinks about him......

And that's one of the reasons he is not here anymore.

red4hf wrote:No, it should carry some of the weight as long as the Coach is being objective and equal....... Sloan isn't....... If Giri did half the things that Bell (and Korver, by the way) did out on the court he would get instantly yanked out of games....... And if playing within the team system is so important, how come Harpring gets so many minutes when he obviously doesn't play within the system on defense? Numerous Jazz players have yelled at him during games to get back to covering his man, and yet Sloan hasn't critisized him once, nor has he disciplined him.......

You must of missed the part where the coaches said he would not do what was asked, Is it just easier to put the blame on one person for everything that happens bad to the Jazz? Trying to shift the blame on the other players or one of the coaches is a straw dog that don't hunt here. We are discussing Giricek and Korver.

red4hf wrote:That's not the point.......

Yes it is, look at the subject title for this discussion.

sodapop · Post #52 » by **sodapop** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:06 pm

red4hf wrote:Bell was bad in Utah, per minute played he averaged less assists than Giri and yet somehow gets the reputation of "playing within the system", pure nonsense........

Giricek 1.7 per game, Bell 1.35 per game.

You believe that .35 or one more assist every three games is proof positive that Giricek was better at playing in the offense? And your definition carries more weight than his coaches? Listen to what your saying. Why would the coaches lie about a person like that for a few years? What profit is there in it? If a coach did not want a player they could just have him traded. Instead we get these conspiracy theories that Sloan is running a torture chamber to mistreat certain players. There is no doghouse, there is not doing what he and his assistants ask. That is pretty much the norm on other NBA teams.

Giriceks floor time was reduced here because he had better competition at his position in Utah than he had in Orlando.

red4hf · Post #53 » by **red4hf** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:05 pm

You must of missed the part where the coaches said he would not do what was asked,

And you must have missed the part where I said, unless the Coaches were being objective it doesn't matter what they say or do.......

Is it just easier to put the blame on one person for everything that happens bad to the Jazz?

I don't know, is it? Because that's what a lot of people did with Giri.......

We are discussing Giricek and Korver.

OK, I don't remember Giri pump faking a pass to Boozer inside and then rising up and shooting a very contested 3 with 15 seconds on the shot clock too many times...... Korver has actually done that a bunch of times since coming to Utah....... Once again, that's something that would get Giri benched, but not Korver, and by the way I'm glad it doesn't get Korver benched because a SG should have the freedom to do that once in a while, but like I said, a Coach has to be consistent.......

red4hf · Post #54 » by **red4hf** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:14 pm

You believe that .35 or one more assist every three games is proof positive that Giricek was better at playing in the offense?

Again, how many minutes did they play, you can't go by totals or averages alone...... In both seasons that Bell and Giri played in Utah together, Giri averaged less minutes and yet more assist per game...... YES, that makes him a better player within the Jazz system, since the system is predicated on making a good pass.......

And your definition carries more weight than his coaches?

It's not my definition, it's what the Coaches defineas playing within the system, making the right pass and taking the good shot...... Giri averaged more assists, had the same FG%...... Using the Coach's own definition he was a better player within the system...... He was also a better defender than Bell, something supposedly very important to the Jazz system.......

Why would the coaches lie about a person like that for a few years?

Because Sloan has personal issues with Giricek...... Just like he has had with other players...... I don't see why you would find that so shocking.......

What profit is there in it?

Ego........

If a coach did not want a player they could just have him traded.

In order to trade a player you have to have a partner........

Instead we get these conspiracy theories that Sloan is running a torture chamber to mistreat certain players.

Again, none of this is new, Sloan has been documented to have problems with certain players....... And guess what, it's not always the players' fault, although it is sometimes, like in the case of Arroyo or Snyder....... But not Giricek, he hasn't done anything wrong....... [/quote]

track86 · Post #55 » by **track86** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:13 am

Just because a coach treats one player differently than another does not mean that he is being inconsistant within the philosophy of the organization. (Remeber this is an entire organization, not a dictatorship.) Players' have different personalities and will react differently to diffent things.

I believe Sloan has been quite consistant. He consistantly plays his favorites. Guess who Sloan's favorites are? The players that work hard, put the team first, and don't try to undermine the ultimate goals of the franchise by thinking they know better that a coach with 20 years experience. ( I wonder why those players are his favorites. :roll:

)

red4hf · Post #56 » by **red4hf** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:04 am

Just because a coach treats one player differently than another does not mean that he is being inconsistant within the philosophy of the organization.

No, actually, that's exactly what it means.......

Players' have different personalities and will react differently to diffent things.

So, the way to deal with Giri was to berate him publicly and privately? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.......

I believe Sloan has been quite consistant. He consistantly plays his favorites. Guess who Sloan's favorites are?

I don't know, the ones that have their lips attached to his ass?

The players that work hard, put the team first, and don't try to undermine the ultimate goals of the franchise by thinking they know better that a coach with 20 years experience.

You mean Harpring and COllins who are two of the most useless players on the Jazz? Harpring who hasn't played any defense for 3 years, and who is one of the most selfish players in the NBA? And Collins who does nothing other than flop?

Yeah, it's really quiet amazing who Sloan considers his favorites.......

sodapop · Post #57 » by **sodapop** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:36 am

coaches

edited to add content

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Jazz-owner-blasts-Giricek?urn=nba,59054

Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller might have offered a pretty good idea why Jazz coach Jerry Sloan has grown so weary of guard Gordan Giricek.

"I think the notion is that he's selfish enough to try to get his shot and his points," Miller said. "That he'll do what he needs to do to do that in spite of what the coaches tell him to do or ask him to do or whatever you want to call it."

http://blogs.sltrib.com/jazz/2007/12/th ... ort_27.htm

Some leftover Gordan Giricek stuff from Thursday that I couldn't squeeze in the paper. There was an implication on Giricek's part that things got blown out of proportion, but general manager Kevin O'Connor didn't see it that way at all.

"We wouldn't have had him miss three games if we felt it was blown out of proportion," O'Connor said. "Players have a job. They have a responsibility to play."

http://www.interbasket.net/news/

GM Larry Miller gave some insight into the situation when he spoke to a local radio station (KFNZ 1320 AM). He said that assistant coach Phil Johnson once told him