Well, the T-Wolves are tanking already.

Rockmaninoff · Post #21 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:45 pm

LukePliska wrote:Well the Bucks are in some deep trouble then because Jefferson > Bogut.

Maybe better in inside scoring, but then Jefferson has had 3 years to work on that. Jefferson's a little better at rebounding, Bogut is better at passing and defense. You could say they are equal, but it would depend on the context of the situation.

I'd take Bogut, because a big man who can defend the paint, is more valuable in the 'post hand check' NBA.

Newz · Post #22 » by **Newz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:50 pm

Rockmaninoff wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Maybe better in inside scoring, but then Jefferson has had 3 years to work on that. Jefferson's a little better at rebounding, Bogut is better at passing and defense. You could say they are equal, but it would depend on the context of the situation.

I'd take Bogut, because a big man who can defend the paint, is more valuable in the 'post hand check' NBA.

I'll take 21/12 with less turn overs per game... And in Jefferson's third year he was averaging 16/11.

"Maybe" better at inside scoring? Jefferson has been praised as having the most advanced post game in the NBA for his age.

"A little" better at rebounding? Yeah, the guy averages three more boards per game.

I don't see how from watching them play or looking at their numbers you could say that they are equal... That seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Rockmaninoff · Post #23 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:54 pm

LukePliska wrote:I'll take 21/12 with less turn overs per game... And in Jefferson's third year he was averaging 16/11.

"Maybe" better at inside scoring? Jefferson has been praised as having the most advanced post game in the NBA for his age.

"A little" better at rebounding? Yeah, the guy averages three more boards per game.

I don't see how from watching them play or looking at their numbers you could say that they are equal... That seems a bit ridiculous to me.

Jefferson also got touches starting in his rookie season. He was quite raw, but they gave him touches never-the-less.

Jefferson's offense > Bogut's defense
Jefferson's defense < Bogut's offense

That's what I mean.

Newz · Post #24 » by **Newz** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Rockmaninoff wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Jefferson also got touches starting in his rookie season. He was quite raw, but they gave him touches never-the-less.

Jefferson's offense > Bogut's defense
Jefferson's defense < Bogut's offense

That's what I mean.

They aren't even close to equals as players... Anyone who says that is the biggest Bogut homer of all time.

Yes, Bogut is a better defensive player than Jefferson. That doesn't make up for how much better Jefferson is in pretty much every other aspect of the game though.

Bogut - 7.3, 9.5,
Jefferson - 5.1, 6.4

Those are their shots per game in their first two years... Where Bogut averaged a whole lot more.

Where are you getting your information from?

Rockmaninoff · Post #25 » by **Rockmaninoff** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:14 pm

LukePliska wrote:Those are their shots per game in their first two years... Where Bogut averaged a whole lot more.

You're right. My bad. Bogut did average more shots and minutes in his first 2 season, but then, Jefferson was straight out of high school. Bogut was a little bit more ready, and Bogut has complementary player skills (passing, defense).

I don't know if you recall, but a lot of people were calling Jefferson a bust at about this time last year. Last year was Jefferson's third season. This year is Bogut's third season. Jefferson started getting more touches in January of last year. Bogut is starting to get more touches in January of this year.

I don't consider Bogut's age to be a part of the discussion. I think the most important factor for player development, besides the player themselves, is the situation they are in.

I really don't think that Jefferson is better, just that he has had an one more NBA season in which to develop, and now he is the unquestioned man on his team. He gets touches.

What I'm trying to say, is that if Bogut was averaging 17 FGA for the 2007-2008 season, he would be averaging 20 pts per game (Jefferson's average) also. Right now, Bogut is averaging about 11 a game and scoring about 14 ppg.

SheedsWeed · Post #26 » by **SheedsWeed** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:42 pm

Wow, thats horrible.

shrink · Post #27 » by **shrink** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:27 am

nice thread.

trwi7 · Post #28 » by **trwi7** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:41 am

shrink wrote:nice thread.

We're not tanking, we're just a special kind of bad.

NeedsMoreCheese · Post #29 » by **NeedsMoreCheese** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:15 am

trwi7 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

We're not tanking, we're just a special kind of bad.

Kerb Hohl · Post #30 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:40 am

Kohl Is A Mome wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Is there something between you guys that I am not clued in on here?

Chipotle_GM · Post #31 » by **Chipotle_GM** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:07 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I just think the guy is closer to Zach Randolph than a top-5 C or PF in this league.....At some point great big men put their teams on their back and reel off 4 or 5 wins on their own grit and talent. I've never seen that from Big Al.

If Bogut can somehow maintain even his January pace for the rest of his career, I'd take him over Big Al hands down.

Rockmaninoff wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I'd take Bogut, because a big man who can defend the paint, is more valuable in the 'post hand check' NBA.

Wow, the Bogut kool-aid is still strong over here, even after some cruddy games recently.

Bogut has played well the past 15 games or so, but on his best nights he can't hold a candle to Al. This one's not close, sorry. And I'm a Bucks fan as well as a Wolves fan.

msiris · Post #32 » by **msiris** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:29 pm

Chipotle_GM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wow, the Bogut kool-aid is still strong over here, even after some cruddy games recently.

Bogut has played well the past 15 games or so, but on his best nights he can't hold a candle to Al. This one's not close, sorry. And I'm a Bucks fan as well as a Wolves fan.

I have to agree with you. I would take Jefferson over Bogut. Both play for bad teams.

shrink · Post #33 » by **shrink** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:18 pm

I just thought the timing of the post that MIN was tanking because they barely lost the BOS game was kind of ironic.

In the two previous games, they beat GSW and PHO. Since then they've lost once to CHI, and beaten NJN and CHI in the rematch.

Maybe if they're trying to tank, the wolves have found one more new thing to be bad at.

Post #34 » by **Basti** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:38 pm

shrink wrote:I just thought the timing of the post that MIN was tanking because they barely lost the BOS game was kind of ironic.

In the two previous games, they beat GSW and PHO. Since then they've lost once to CHI, and beaten NJN and CHI in the rematch.

Maybe if they're trying to tank, the wolves have found one more new thing to be bad at.

and I'm sure we're not tanking since we're getting screwed by the lottery (*cough* david stern *cough*) ending with the 4th pick even if we have the worst record. that game vs BOS was just too much to handle for the young guys. they responded very well the next game by scoring 10-0 points vs the nets in the last 2 mins