nj + pdx + dallas

[Teen Girl Squad]

Im not going to lie, I havent watched enough of the blazers to know if Harris is a good fit or not, nor do I know about cap situations, but wouldnt it be helpful to pull the trade in order to consolidate the roster and solve the PG issue (again assuming Harris is a good fit). Outlaw has played well but SF the easiest position to get talent from, especially in the middle of the first when there are more forwards than PGs. Sure you may not win the the trade value wise but to me it seems it would be better in the long run.

[Goldbum]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2754~2768~2795~429~2745~992~267~2382~802&teams=17~17~17~6~22~17~17~22~17&te=10:6-396~2801:6-396&cash=

I think its fair

Dallas gets - Kidd, Wright, Armstrong

Portland gets - Harris, Bass

New Jersey gets - Frye, Webster, Jack, Stackhouse, cap space

Its fun to play with rumors

I would like it if we took out Webster and added James Jones/ Kopenen /Freeland and a 1st round draft pick and a couple 2nd rounders.

[Hoops23]

ESPN
Yahoo

Coming from two sites, looks like we might expect the trades mentioned.

Both Yahoo and ESPN said that it

[farzi]

Im not going to lie, I havent watched enough of the blazers to know if Harris is a good fit or not, nor do I know about cap situations, but wouldnt it be helpful to pull the trade in order to consolidate the roster and solve the PG issue (again assuming Harris is a good fit). Outlaw has played well but SF the easiest position to get talent from, especially in the middle of the first when there are more forwards than PGs. Sure you may not win the the trade value wise but to me it seems it would be better in the long run.

No.

ESPN
Yahoo

Coming from two sites, looks like we might expect the trades mentioned.

Both Yahoo and ESPN said that it

[Billy]

Well, I suppose one way to look at it is that Portland could certainly use a point guard, and could certainly use a rebounder. Portland parts with one guy that isn't a point guard (Jack), a guy that's not much of a rebounder (Frye) and a top 6th man.

Still a steep price to pay, but for Bass to be coming back as well helps cushion the blow. Bass obviously plays a different game than Channing, but I could see him really helping Portland.

If the deal were to go down I wouldn't be disappointed at this point I don't think. But I will certainly maintain that it sucks to trade Outlaw.

[Wizenheimer]

the trade certainly takes on a different look when it's both Devin Harris and Brandon Bass coming back.

I would guess that if the rumors are actually based on negotiations and not speculation, that KP is holding out, and trying to trade webster or jones, instead of Outlaw. On the other hand, it would seem that Bass would naturally take the place of outlaw in the rotation.

I will also point out Brandon Bass's contract situation. He will become an unrestricted FA at the end of next season, and since he was only signed to a 2 year contract, portland would only hole early bird rights to him. He might be difficult to re-sign.

Still...I think portland would end up regretting trading Outlaw.

[Dakotah612]

If any deal goes down I'm really hoping it's Webster instead of Outlaw. Webster is a spot up shooter, Rudy Fernandez will fill his role and then some next year. Rudy is a better slasher and passer than Martell and looks like he's just as good of a three point shooter. I trust KP though, his eye for talent is top shelf.

Devin Harris is the perfect fit for our backcourt with Roy. The guys on 1080 had an interesting prospective on the deal: We are essentially trading Outlaw for Harris, a legit starting PG. Jack and Frye weren't sticking around long term anyways.

[Billy]

If ESPN grows the cajones to put something on the main page of their site that isn't an insider article we may have something.

Well, it's on the front page now. Although it's shaky at best at the moment that anything would actually occur from the sounds of it.

[mojomarc]

If any deal goes down I'm really hoping it's Webster instead of Outlaw. Webster is a spot up shooter, Rudy Fernandez will fill his role and then some next year. Rudy is a better slasher and passer than Martell and looks like he's just as good of a three point shooter. I trust KP though, his eye for talent is top shelf.

I love Rudy as much as the next guy--heck, I was the guy who started the "Rudy! Rudy!" chant at the draft party that we enjoyed so much--but he is a guard, not a SF. He's not a rebounder and likely never will be in the NBA, and he's not a great defender. Martell is improving rapidly in those areas, and even getting better slashing. He would be a great compliment to Roy and Rudy, but Rudy really shouldn't be considered a replacement for him.

[mojomarc]

Well, I suppose one way to look at it is that Portland could certainly use a point guard, and could certainly use a rebounder. Portland parts with one guy that isn't a point guard (Jack), a guy that's not much of a rebounder (Frye) and a top 6th man.

Still a steep price to pay, but for Bass to be coming back as well helps cushion the blow. Bass obviously plays a different game than Channing, but I could see him really helping Portland.

I just want to concentrate on the Frye-Bass comparison. You say Bass is a rebounder and Frye isn't, yet with his increased minutes this year (as opposed to the spot minutes only that he got previously) his rebound rate is actually 2 less than Frye (Frye is at 15.2, Bass 13.2) and Frye outrebounds Bass on a per-40 basis, 10.3 to 9.0 for Bass. Also, Bass' offensive game is, to put it politely, extremely limited and while bulky he is also short for the PF position in the NBA. You can't look at age as a deciding factor as both have at least a decade at this level left from an age standpoint.

In other words: I really don't get the chubby some people get about Brandon Bass. He was a good spot minutes player on a mediocre team (like that, Timmy????) last year, and this year he's a decent sub, but it's not like he's this humongous improvement over Frye and in fact he is in many ways far more limited.

[Billy]

-= original quote snipped =-



I just want to concentrate on the Frye-Bass comparison. You say Bass is a rebounder and Frye isn't, yet with his increased minutes this year (as opposed to the spot minutes only that he got previously) his rebound rate is actually 2 less than Frye (Frye is at 15.2, Bass 13.2) and Frye outrebounds Bass on a per-40 basis, 10.3 to 9.0 for Bass. Also, Bass' offensive game is, to put it politely, extremely limited and while bulky he is also short for the PF position in the NBA. You can't look at age as a deciding factor as both have at least a decade at this level left from an age standpoint.

In other words: I really don't get the chubby some people get about Brandon Bass. He was a good spot minutes player on a mediocre team (like that, Timmy????) last year, and this year he's a decent sub, but it's not like he's this humongous improvement over Frye and in fact he is in many ways far more limited.

Wow, a lot was taken from a rather benign (and rather incoherent re-reading it) statement. I certainly wouldn't try to argue that Bass is better than Frye. I'm simply stating that one way to look at this trade is you get a PG and a decent PF, in return you give up a guy who isn't a point guard, a PF that isn't exactly known as a banger (although as you've shown his rebounds are good), but the caveat is you give up a great sixth man in Outlaw.

He's really not an improvement at all over Frye, but he's a solid cushion (if he in fact comes in this deal) for losing Frye while gaining a good point guard.

I'd prefer just to keep Frye and let Dallas keep Bass. I'm sure that would make both teams happy. Bass simply would soften the blow to the Blazers front line.

[cucad8]

I agree mojo. I think Bass is improving, but my concern is the future of our team. If we move Outlaw and Frye, Bass is our backup PF. So our 2nd unit would have Pryzbilla and Bass up front. We might get every rebound,a nd do good defensively, but you would then seeminglyhave two offensive liabilities in the front court, which is part of what worries me about the deal. granted, you would get production from Blake, Sergio, Rudy, and James Jones, but you would also face constant double teams, because of the ability to shy away from bass and Pryz. Whereas Frye would at least provide another offensive threat for the 2nd unit. I dunno. Still torn on the possibilties of this deal. For some reason, I am ok with losing Outlaw. I think Webster will be the better pro, ultimately. I obviously could be wrong, but I see him as a natural fit at the 3 for us, and Outlaw will never be a starter for us. I think Webster is further along at this point than Travis was, I think he shows an ability to improve like Travis has, and I think if he was our main option off the bench, and Outlaw was starting, their values might look different, with Webster getting the green light to score whenever he touches the ball, and outlaw waiting on Ray and Aldridge before getting that chance. Who knows.

[Billy]

I also just want to add that from a numbers stand point to the rebounding I certainly agree, Channing is a good rebounder. When I originally wrote that I was thinking more about the first month and a half into the season where 6' point guards were out muscling Channing for boards. Channing has proven that he's a better rebounder than advertised.

[SabasRevenge!]

I really like the way Channing spaces the floor and allows our guards to penetrate. He's a great guy for the second unit and I feel like he's been playing very well within his role lately. I hate giving up Travis as well and originally I was of the opinion that we should push to include Martell instead. I'm not so sure of that anymore; it's a really tough call. I'd love to have Harris on this team, I believe he'd solve our long term PG questions, but it does seem like a lot to give and IMO Dallas would need something other than Kidd to show for what they're sending out.

[mojomarc]

I wasn't beating up on you, Billy, so much as I was just ranting about the number of fans all summer that were very loud about how they would love Brandon Bass and how he would be such a great player for us (PNF--I'm looking in your direction ) and that he would be a big contributor. My comments towards you were strictly addressing the rebounding comment you made.

[Billy]

You're mean. I almost threw away our "Best Friends Forever" bracelet.

Ok in all seriousness, I totally agree. My only thoughts for why Bass would at least improve the trade in my eyes isn't because he's better than Channing (as we already discussed), just that it's better to have a PF that is at least okay doing things that Portland needs rather than losing your backup PF altogether. Honestly, the thought of Josh McRoberts magically coming in from the NBDL and replacing Channing's production makes me a little sick to my stomach.

[Butter]

I just don't get this at all. What is the point? I haven't watched Harris a lot, but doesn't he need the ball in his hands a lot in order to be effective? Umm, doesn't Roy need the ball in his hands in the half court?

I mean, compare Blake and Harris. Both good defenders, Blake is a spot up shooter, Harris is a slasher. Which one compliments Roy and Oden more?

Lastly, I still think that if the Blazers are going to get involved in this 3-way, they to lose Miles in the deal as well.

[Wizenheimer]

I guess a question I have is this: if portland was to trade Outlaw, Frye, Jack, a 1st round pick (assumed from the chatter) and possibly cash, is the best they can do Devin Harris and Brandon Bass???

I don't see any 'addition by subtraction' in that trade. I'm not sure that portland couldn't do better then that on draft day if they were willing to give up that much.

Now, I think it's true that Portland may have a difficult time ever landing a PG of Harris's ability. But in my view, mojo is right, frye>bass and then there's the issue of giving up Outlaw. I still think he has the potential to really explode in the next few years. I fear portland could end up really regretting trading him away....especially in a trade that gives away Frye and their cap-space option, which this one would do.

[Billy]

I just don't get this at all. What is the point? I haven't watched Harris a lot, but doesn't he need the ball in his hands a lot in order to be effective? Umm, doesn't Roy need the ball in his hands in the half court?

I mean, compare Blake and Harris. Both good defenders, Blake is a spot up shooter, Harris is a slasher. Which one compliments Roy and Oden more?

Lastly, I still think that if the Blazers are going to get involved in this 3-way, they to lose Miles in the deal as well.

I haven't watched Harris a ton, but he's certainly a better option than Blake from what I've seen.

You could possibly argue he's not quite a true point guard. But it seems like that is something that would fit well with Roy in the back court. He doesn't necessarily seem to need the ball in his hands to be effective, but he can do some good things with it when he has it.

Defensively he'd instantly be one of Portland's best perimeter defenders. This helps Portland big time IMO. Ben Gordon always seemed like a sexy pick to go next to Roy. The problem then is that Gordon can't really guard the Paul's and D. Williams' of the NBA, and most likely Roy couldn't either--at least not for a full game. Devin Harris can, and I think if you want to win a title in the next 7-10 years you're going to have to deal with both of those guys.

Offensively he seems like a pretty good catch and shoot guy. His 3 point skills aren't as polished as Blake or Jack's, but I think his defense makes up for some of it.

It's certainly a toss up. The trade idea is growing on me, but I go back and forth.

[The Sebastian Express]

The only problem I'd have with this trade is our bench (which is already struggling after being so good for that extended period) would be gutted.