nj + pdx + dallas

[Butter]

-= original quote snipped =-



I haven't watched Harris a ton, but he's certainly a better option than Blake from what I've seen.

You could possibly argue he's not quite a true point guard. But it seems like that is something that would fit well with Roy in the back court. He doesn't necessarily seem to need the ball in his hands to be effective, but he can do some good things with it when he has it.

Defensively he'd instantly be one of Portland's best perimeter defenders. This helps Portland big time IMO. Ben Gordon always seemed like a sexy pick to go next to Roy. The problem then is that Gordon can't really guard the Paul's and D. Williams' of the NBA, and most likely Roy couldn't either--at least not for a full game. Devin Harris can, and I think if you want to win a title in the next 7-10 years you're going to have to deal with both of those guys.

Offensively he seems like a pretty good catch and shoot guy. His 3 point skills aren't as polished as Blake or Jack's, but I think his defense makes up for some of it.

It's certainly a toss up. The trade idea is growing on me, but I go back and forth.

Well, I can buy off on what your describing. But like I said, I hope that KP is trying to to insert Miles into the deal.

[ppp000]

Even with Bass included I still don't see Portland's angle in this deal. Supposedly though the Nets wanted Josh Howard ( ) and Mavs said No and thats why a third team is involved...according to the NJ paper thats been reporting this rumor.

Anyways bad deal for Mavs, bad deal for Portland IMO. Too much for both teams respective to what they are getting back when both teams are doing just fine as they are.

[Telfaire]

I couldn't find a deal that involves Outlaw, Frye and Jack and works financially...but this one does, and I would be fine with it - question is, what about the Nets?

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -20.8 ppg, -5.6 rpg, and +1.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Malik Allen
6-10 PF from Villanova
5.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.6 minutes
Jason Kidd
6-4 PG from California
11.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 10.4 apg in 37.3 minutes
Outgoing Players
Brandon Bass
6-8 PF from Lousiana State
7.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 19.8 minutes
DeSagana Diop
7-0 C from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
3.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17.8 minutes
Devean George
6-8 SF from Augsburg-MN
2.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.1 minutes
Devin Harris
6-3 PG from Wisconsin
14.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 30.4 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
9.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.4 minutes
2008 1st rounder

New Jersey Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +11.1 ppg, +3.1 rpg, and -5.0 apg.
Incoming Players
DeSagana Diop
7-0 C from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
3.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17.8 minutes
Devean George
6-8 SF from Augsburg-MN
2.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.1 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
9.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.4 minutes
Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
9.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
6.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.1 minutes
Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08
Blazers, Mavs' 2008 1st rounders
Outgoing Players
Darrell Armstrong
6-1 PG from Fayetteville State
2.1 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 10.8 minutes
Malik Allen
6-10 PF from Villanova
5.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.6 minutes
Jason Collins
7-0 C from Stanford
1.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 16.0 minutes
Jason Kidd
6-4 PG from California
11.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 10.4 apg in 37.3 minutes

Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +9.7 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and +3.4 apg.
Incoming Players
Brandon Bass
6-8 PF from Lousiana State
7.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 19.8 minutes
Devin Harris
6-3 PG from Wisconsin
14.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 30.4 minutes
Darrell Armstrong
6-1 PG from Fayetteville State
2.1 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.4 apg in 10.8 minutes
Jason Collins
7-0 C from Stanford
1.3 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.4 apg in 16.0 minutes
Outgoing Players
Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
9.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
6.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.1 minutes
Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08
2008 1st rounder


Nets would absorb two contract that expire only in 2010 - Miles and Stackhouse - but maybe they'll be intrigued but what these two can bring to the table. They also get two young prospects in Jack and Frye, our unprotected pick that could be a late lottery pick, and Dallas' late 1st rounder - that's three 1st round picks in what appears to be a deep draft.

I like it for us because we get our PG for the future in Harris, who's a great defender against guys like Paul, Nash and AI; we dump Miles for Collins who expire in 2009; get Bass who's tougher than Frye. I think it's defiently worth losing Jack and our pick, even if we'll end up in the lottery. Armstrong would be waived and could sign with the Mavs maybe.

Harris/Blake
Roy/Rudy
Webster/Outlaw
LMA/Bass
Oden/Przybilla

If Webster wont make the extra leap next season, and there'll some prospects at SF to sign (like Granger?), we'll let him and maybe even Blake go, and use our cap space.

[Dwightmare]

as an outsider looking in, this trade is pretty sweet for you all. Harris and Roy would be a siiiiick backcourt. And with LA and Oden.....im just glad you are in the west. I see that some of you dont want to give up Jack/TO/ and Frye but you are getting a stud defensive minded PG who is still improving. You all should do this trade. You can find any SF to put in that mix and will be nasty. Finding a good PG is harder. Brandon Bass is a nice pickup too, replaces losing Frye.

[ppp000]

^Heck no from the Mavs. We're not giving up Harris, Stack, Bass AND Diop AND a draft pick. That's way too much for Kidd. This deal is better for the Blazers but Mavs are not going to get fleeced by giving away Harris and 3 key role players.

[Telfaire]

So if you keep your draft pick it's OK?

[SabasRevenge!]

I haven't watched Harris a ton, but he's certainly a better option than Blake from what I've seen.

You could possibly argue he's not quite a true point guard. But it seems like that is something that would fit well with Roy in the back court. He doesn't necessarily seem to need the ball in his hands to be effective, but he can do some good things with it when he has it.

Defensively he'd instantly be one of Portland's best perimeter defenders. This helps Portland big time IMO. Ben Gordon always seemed like a sexy pick to go next to Roy. The problem then is that Gordon can't really guard the Paul's and D. Williams' of the NBA, and most likely Roy couldn't either--at least not for a full game. Devin Harris can, and I think if you want to win a title in the next 7-10 years you're going to have to deal with both of those guys.

Offensively he seems like a pretty good catch and shoot guy. His 3 point skills aren't as polished as Blake or Jack's, but I think his defense makes up for some of it.

It's certainly a toss up. The trade idea is growing on me, but I go back and forth.

+1

Harris isn't shooting poorly this year, he's shooting well for a guard. Henry Abbott's analysis basically said that he's underrated as a spot up shooter. There is no question about his D. It's a great point that we're going to have to go up against the D.Will and CP's of the West for a long time and a guy like Harris would be a huge advantage.

We're probably not going to be in a top-5 lotto position to pick a franchise changing PG. We need a PG who is young like our core but can contribute now. We need a PG who can play solid D and work off of Brandon Roy. The more I think about this trade the more I like it, even with Outlaw involved. Outlaw's value may be as high as it ever will be, or he may continue to grow into a great player. Still, if we have a chance to get a solid young PG like Harris without giving up any of our big three, we almost have to do it.

EDIT: I believe including Channing in this trade would be overpaying. Getting Brandon Bass in return would be a big loss for us. I'm definitely not in the "we need a bruiser" camp and I believe Channing is a much better fit for this team and is a better player than Bass period.

[ppp000]

So if you keep your draft pick it's OK?

No we're definitely NOT giving away BOTH bass and diop. We'd have even more holes down low, which is really what the Mavs shold be trading for...not for a PG, a position we're not lacking in. Furthermore, if we did trade Diop, we'd have to get Magloire back or something of that sort.

[BonziWellsPDX]

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned (or mentioned much) is that Portland has to start to look at making some moves to trim the roster. The closer we get to draft day, and then summer league with Oden, Rudy, our 1st round pick this year, heck maybe even Freeland and/or Koponen signed to contracts, the more other teams' GMs are going to be drooling at our roster, knowing we will HAVE to make a move to trim the roster to 15. I think the further along we get to next year and signing the players we already have, the worse the offers are going to get from other teams. In all honesty, we will be FORCED to make a move, and other GMs know that.

In my opinion, the sooner the Blazers can identify a deal where we trade quantity for quality, Pritchard has to pull the trigger. I am certainly far from convinced that Devin Harris is the perfect compliment to Roy (as many of you have suggested)--heck, I'm not even convinced he's a true PG. But I think anyone else from around the league not from Portland or Dallas will tell you that Devin Harris is better than Outlaw, better than Jack, better than Webster, and better than Frye. While sending out some sort of package which includes most of those players to land Harris looks on paper to be a bum deal for the Blazers talent-wise, the fact of the matter is we get the best player in the deal. We sent out by far more talent in the deal with New York last year, and look how that ended up for us--we're doing just fine if you ask me. I don't think you can simply look at a deal on paper, look at the talent coming and going, and say whether it's a good deal or not. Many more factors go into it.

I would guess the biggest holdup for Pritchard with this deal (if it was in fact ever on the table) was deciding whether Harris was the right player to commit to. He's signed to a pretty substantial contract that runs through 2013 I believe. That means he'd essentially be the Blazers' starting PG for our championship run(s). So does KP think Harris is the type of PG who can lead our team to a championship? If the answer is yes, the Kevin pulls the deal. If it's a no, then of course it's a pass. My bet is that his response was something along the lines of, "Well, Harris is a really nice player, but, uhh, I mean, not really a 3 point shooter, super duper fast, but, well,..." And then he realized that since it was taking him that long to make a decision, he knew what the answer was.

But that still doesn't remove the fact that Portland has to make a move to trim the roster. If we wait until after the summer, I think that's too late.

And I'm done.

[ISB]

To me if the pick is lottery protected and Webster goes instead of Outlaw, it's a pretty solid deal for Portland. Devin Harris isn't an elite PG, but Outlaw, Frye, and Jack are only so good themselves. Harris would fit great on the blazers though. They don't need a Chris Paul when they already have Roy, Aldridge, and Oden.

however if the blazers slip a little, that pick ends up in the lottery (and could have just been used on the best pg prospect available,) and Outlaw has to go instead of Webster (personally I like Outlaw more,) I wouldn't like this trade so much for Portland.

[Mr Odd]

I will NOT be a happy camper if Outlaw is traded!!

Spykes or someone will have to change my board
name to Angry Mr Odd if Outlaw is traded.. .Grrr!!

[mojomarc]

Lots of good points. Have to point out a few things, though (the trade I'm referencing is Telfaire's):

1) For Sabas: true, we won't be a top 5 pick (if we are, all bets are off--in a good way!), but this is a deep draft for PG's. If we just miss the playoffs we'll only be a couple slots away from guaranteeing ourselves a Bayless, who I think is just as good as Harris long run if not better.

2) PPP: I think if the trade went down like that I would still take it if Dallas kept their pick (which is pretty close to a 2nd rounder, anyway, but if that's a deal breaker it's a deal breaker) and Portland put in both this year's and the 2010 pick. With all of our 2nd rounders this year we'll just use them to add another future first for a team that needs bodies this year or we'll buy a first rounder if we need one or something. We should be a good enough team that late first rounders will do nothing but take up salary space for at least the next 3-4 seasons, so we can afford to give up the extra pick.

3) To everyone: I'm not high on Bass. I think he's greatly overrated by some on this board. I would take this deal in a heartbeat if it got Darius off the team, though. We're actually fairly neutral from a salary perspective taking Harris for Darius, and we do get a player that would have a far more certain future on our team.

4) Also to everyone, and this is the most important: I can't see Dallas making the trade even if they don't give up the pick. Diop is an important part of their defense, and Harris is an important part of their offense, and they really don't replace that. Without Diop, Dampier gets in a little foul trouble against the Spurs and you have Dirk pretty soon having to check Duncan. Malik Allen doesn't fill this hole for them. Then there's the issue of having Kidd and Terry as the backcourt--I have a hard time seeing them being terribly compatible at least in the long run (short run, they may be able to make a run if they can get past The Lakers, Utah and San Antonio, so this may be a moot point as a championship is worth the longer term sacrifice) but what about next season and the season after? This is a very, very risky move for them sending both of these players out, and while it could result in a championship if they have a to play a team with a banger inside like a healthy Bynum or Duncan they would be more vulnerable than they have ever been.

[Telfaire]

OK, here's another attempt, read explanations, it involves a Diop buy out:

New Jersey Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +12.4 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and -2.1 apg.
Incoming Players
Devean George
6-8 SF from Augsburg-MN
2.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.1 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
9.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.4 minutes
Sergio Rodriguez
6-3 PG from Spain (Foreign)
2.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 9.8 minutes
Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
9.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
6.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.1 minutes
Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08
Blazers' 1st and 2nd round picks
Outgoing Players
Malik Allen
6-10 PF from Villanova
5.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.6 minutes
Jamaal Magloire
6-11 C from Kentucky
1.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.8 minutes
Jason Kidd
6-4 PG from California
11.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 10.4 apg in 37.3 minutes

Dallas Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -20.8 ppg, -5.6 rpg, and +1.6 apg.
Incoming Players
Malik Allen
6-10 PF from Villanova
5.7 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 16.6 minutes
Jason Kidd
6-4 PG from California
11.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 10.4 apg in 37.3 minutes
Outgoing Players
Brandon Bass
6-8 PF from Lousiana State
7.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 19.8 minutes
DeSagana Diop
7-0 C from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
3.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17.8 minutes
Devean George
6-8 SF from Augsburg-MN
2.6 ppg, 2.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.1 minutes
Devin Harris
6-3 PG from Wisconsin
14.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 30.4 minutes
Jerry Stackhouse
6-6 SG / SF from North Carolina
9.9 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 2.5 apg in 24.4 minutes

Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +8.4 ppg, +7.1 rpg, and +0.5 apg.
Incoming Players
Jamaal Magloire
6-11 C from Kentucky
1.8 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.8 minutes
Brandon Bass
6-8 PF from Lousiana State
7.7 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 0.8 apg in 19.8 minutes
DeSagana Diop
7-0 C from Oak Hill Academy (HS)
3.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17.8 minutes
Devin Harris
6-3 PG from Wisconsin
14.4 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 30.4 minutes
Outgoing Players
Sergio Rodriguez
6-3 PG from Spain (Foreign)
2.9 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 9.8 minutes
Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
9.0 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 3.6 apg in 26.0 minutes
Channing Frye
6-11 C from Arizona
6.8 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 0.9 apg in 18.1 minutes
Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
No games yet played in 2007/08
2008 1st, 2nd round picks


Nets buy out George, absorb Miles and Stackhouse for 3 young prospects in Sergio, Jack and Frye plus our 1st round pick (top 10 protected?), and one of our 2nd rounders.

Mavs would get Diop back after we'll buy him out, get Allen who's a great post defender.

If we trade for Harris and Blake becomes his backup, then both Sergio and Jack are expendable. We buy out Diop, but get to keep Magloire for the rest of the season. Clear 2 roster spots for our 2nd round picks, Rudy and maybe even Freeland?

[glide22]

i only skimmed bonzi's giant post above, but from what i gleaned, i agree. we'll need to make a roster shrinking move at some point. we should be less concerned with getting the best value on each player in the deal, and more concerned with what our roster will look like when it's done.

you devin harris haters out there baffle me. he was an incredible scorer and distributor in college. he had a year and a half adjustment period in the nba, but has done nothing but improve from that point on. you can't dispute his defense. (he's a better defensive guard than anyone on our roster.) on offense, we all seem to agree he can get to the rim. some of you have noticed that his outside shot is getting better and better. (35% is solid in my book.)

as far as i'm concerned, devin harris is the fourth building block. you won't find a better PG in the middle of the draft, and you won't be able to pick up a 24 year old PG at his level in free agency. (CP3 ain't coming.) Devin is good right now. unlike Kidd, he'll be good 5 years from now.

long posting short - be excited about devin, trust KP, and think about the three-five year plan. it looks pretty good with devin harris in the mix.

[Ripcity4life]

I see the New Proposal we get Brandon Bass too --- Now lets Pull the Trigger. I mean let's Trade the teams 2nd/3rd best Scorer , Size in Frye and a decent shooter and Jack who is maybe the GUTS of the team. Now that we get Bass this makes that lopsided deal even ...... Even more insulting that is. It's a VERY good thing that KP is the GM and not Nash or Patterson.


I will say i think the Blazers should consider making a trade cause Roy , Aldridge and Outlaw need help IF the team WANTS to make the playoffs THIS season. I could go into more details on WHO should be traded but thats not what this TOPIC is about. Ahh What the heck i will anyways.


Trade Webster and Jack or Sergio


Now I like Webster but he is so inconsistent that you never know what Webster is going to show up. He explodes and makes his being picked 6th look good about maybe 6 to 10 times a year and maybe another 10 to 15 shows promise WHY we should be more patient. This leaves the rest of the season where when his Shot is going down he disappears and the rest of his game does little to nothing. This is a hard choice but IF the right deal comes along it's time he finds a NEW home.

[ppp000]

From Dallas newspapers, they say that the trade has cooled b/c the Mavs also did not like any of the deals. Of course all we're hearing is the spins coming from NJ and East coast media, trying to up the value of Kidd.

[BiggieSmalls]

i like bass and i like harris, but i LOOOOOOVE outlaw, i have always been a fan of his and it seems like this yar he is finally putting it all together and realizing how can be successful, he has played a huge role in the teams success this year. with that said i have to say i like the idea of having harris at point guard for the future, he would go perfect alongside roy and bass coming off the bench is nice cuz he is an animal, hustles on the floor, can jump and position well for rebounds and provides a strong body that isnt afraid to bang with the big boys.

this is the lineup i envision if this trade went down:
Harris/Blake/Rodriguez
Roy/Fernandez
Webster/Jones
Aldridge/Bass/Freeland
Oden/Pryzbilla

that team would be deadly in many ways, they would be an amazing defensive team that could play the fast break run nd gun style or efficient in the half court because people are never going to be able to double team roy with oden and aldridge down low and martell creepin in the corner, the floor will open up for a lot of things to happen which is something that we are missing this year. i love rudy comin off the bench and with that group i think he would play a very similar role that outlaw does this year but the numbers will be better sooner in his career.
(that bench would have been the starting five for the blazers 3 years ago lol)

[Mr Odd]

From Dallas newspapers, they say that the trade has cooled b/c the Mavs also did not like any of the deals. Of course all we're hearing is the spins coming from NJ and East coast media, trying to up the value of Kidd.

Yea, whatever the deal is im sure its not exactly
like the rumors out there. Im 95% sure that there
is no way that Pritchard is going to trade Outlaw.. .

I have a feeling if the deal doesnt happen within
the next 5 days it probably wont happen, atleast
not with these three teams. I mean theres a small
chance that theyre waiting for Devin to be checked
out due to him being hurt, but thats kinda unlikely
since its not a major injury.. .I bet if this deal falls
dead it will be on Pritchard not wanting to trade TO.

[ppp000]

-= original quote snipped =-



Yea, whatever the deal is im sure its not exactly
like the rumors out there. Im 95% sure that there
is no way that Pritchard is going to trade Outlaw.. .

I have a feeling if the deal doesnt happen within
the next 5 days it probably wont happen, atleast
not with these three teams. I mean theres a small
chance that theyre waiting for Devin to be checked
out due to him being hurt, but thats kinda unlikely
since its not a major injury.. .I bet if this deal falls
dead it will be on Pritchard not wanting to trade TO.

Three team deals are very hard to do, no team wants to budge a centimeter in terms of losing out. And Mavs don't want to gut their team for an aging pg, Kidd or not. (And Mavs are very high on Harris, so it was surprising for us to hear that he could possibly be on the table) And I agree, I expect things to be done soon or never between these three teams.

[Pattycakes]

Everything said, I'd still loooooove to find a way to get Brandon Bass in a seperate deal.