Bargnani vs. Blatche

[Kosta]

-= original quote snipped =-



Yep. Sean is clearly a better player right now than Bargnani too. Sean is a monster shotblocker, a decent rebounder, and a pretty good finisher around the rim. He's already much better than Bargnani in the areas that don't involve scoring. Then again, who isn't?

BTW Kosta, it's apparent Bargnani can't create his own shot either. He's shooting 37% from the field.

He's shooting horrendous from the floor, but that more so has to do with him just flat out missing shots he normally makes this season. He has shown the ability to take players off the dribble and get to the rim, either finish or draw the foul. He can take his man off the dribble, stop on a dime and drill the mid range jumper. He can even create for others by using his dribble to penetrate and kick it to open guys. In fact, he had several plays last night against your Wizards that back-up everything I just said.

Sean Williams has no offensive game to speak of.

[Hendrix]

-= original quote snipped =-
Secondly, why does Bargnani get the benefit of the doubt but no one else can? You're guaranteeing that Bargani is a 20/7 player - fine, i'll guarantee that Blatche is a 20/10/3 player in 3 years. See how easy that was?

Can't comment too much because I havn't seen enough of Blatch to make any educated comparison. But 20/7 isn't really a crazy prediction. Last year after the all star break he averaged 15 pts, 5.5 rebounds, on.456%fg, .400% 3 pt in 30 minutes a game. He's had a had some injuries, and an overall crappy year this year. If a guy can put up 15/5.5 on good % though in 30 minutes for a decent stretch in their rookie year 20/7 is definitly possible in starters minutes after he develops a bit imo.


You also said his flaws of being soft, and alergic to rebounding are not correctable. There's been a noticeable difference in Bargnani tryting to establish post position down low between the start of his career, and now. Nowitzki was a worse rebounder then Bargnani when he came into the league, and has averaged 10rbp. So obviously these things can be corected.

He's also a good defender. His weakness in defending comes mostly from rotations, which for now I'll assume it's because it's his first year playing center. Man to man he regulary gaurds the other teams best man, and is good there.

btw, if you want someone to take your comparison seriously it might be better to not slam everything about one guy, then praise everything about the other guy. Comes off a bit bias.

[yungal07]

-= original quote snipped =-



He's shooting horrendous from the floor, but that more so has to do with him just flat out missing shots he normally makes this season. He has shown the ability to take players off the dribble and get to the rim, either finish or draw the foul. He can take his man off the dribble, stop on a dime and drill the mid range jumper. He can even create for others by using his dribble to penetrate and kick it to open guys. In fact, he had several plays last night against your Wizards that back-up everything I just said.

Sean Williams has no offensive game to speak of.

If you consider what Bargnani does as creating one own's offense, then even by your own criteria you are incorrect.

Bargnani shoots 42.9% on jumpshots (80% of his offensive attempts, which is why he is so ineffective offensively). Guess what SW shoots on jumpshots? 42.4% (with only 33% of his offense coming from this, which is why he is a far more efficient player than Bargnani). From there on, SW is a much more efficient and effective player (close, inside, and tips/dunks). In other words, SW sticks to what he does best, while not settling for the thing that he does the worst (outside shooting), while Bargnani manages to hoist up shots that he has no business taking. That's a sign of not only a soft player, but also a low IQ player i.e. continuing to do something he is simply not good at.

What you need to accept is that bargnani is NOT a good offensive player. He isn't. And he wasn't last season either. His game needs a ton of refinement.

[RapsVC15]

Bargnani will be better in the future? LMAO

Bustnani has no game. All he does is hoist jump shots and nothing else. He can't rebound, can't defend, can't handle the ball, is soft as a cupcake, and has no post game despite being 7 feet tall. Even his name sounds soft.

Blatche has been head and shoulders better than that BUM. Defensively and on the boards, Blatche is AEONS better. Blatche can handle the ball too.

Dude was right when he said the comparison isn't close...Blatche is much better than the bust. Bargnani is arguably as bad as Kwame when it comes to being the worst #1 pick of all-time.

Bustache's numbers obviously blow Bargnani out of the water.

His stellar 1, 3, and 5 rebounding averages for his first three years put Bargnani to shame. Just look at his shooting percentages, I mean 38% in the first, 43% in the second, and 46% in the third?!? Ballin, especially for a guy who plays close to the bucket and has a post game.

Impressive.

[RapsVC15]

-= original quote snipped =-



bargs ain't that good now... but blatche is tearing it up!

7/5

MIP, baby!

[The Boshpit!]

As far as I'm concerned Blatche will aways just be a good role player. He definately has some skill but will be overshadowed by Arenas Butler and Jamison. Bargnani on the other hand has the potential to be a 2nd option on the Raptors next to Bosh. Saying that Bargnani's rebounding is uncorrectable is just ignorant. If you have been watching the last couple of games he has grabbed either 7 or 6 in all of them. Eventually once he becomes comfortable in his position and with his role on the team he will be able to do this consistently every night. Not to say Blatche doesn't have potential to I just think Bargs will be considered the better player throughout their careers.

[WesWesley]

youngal, the only thing you've effectively proven in this thread is that you have no business evaluating talent.

nobody will ever ask you to again, so you should just stop.

[Hendrix]

-= original quote snipped =-



If you consider what Bargnani does as creating one own's offense, then even by your own criteria you are incorrect.

Bargnani shoots 42.9% on jumpshots (80% of his offensive attempts, which is why he is so ineffective offensively). Guess what SW shoots on jumpshots? 42.4% (with only 33% of his offense coming from this, which is why he is a far more efficient player than Bargnani). From there on, SW is a much more efficient and effective player (close, inside, and tips/dunks). In other words, SW sticks to what he does best, while not settling for the thing that he does the worst (outside shooting), while Bargnani manages to hoist up shots that he has no business taking. That's a sign of not only a soft player, but also a low IQ player i.e. continuing to do something he is simply not good at.

What you need to accept is that bargnani is NOT a good offensive player. He isn't. And he wasn't last season either. His game needs a ton of refinement.

SW sticks to what he does best which is dunking. shooting is what Bargnani does best. So when bargnani sticks to do what he does best he's a low IQ player, lol. Bargnani had a .546 TS% last year which is about the same efficency as Jamison, Okafor, and Al Jefferson. He's been injured, and had a bad year shooting the ball. If he's capible of doing it over a while season then there's no reason to think his shooting% this year won't bounce back.

[yungal07]

-= original quote snipped =-



SW sticks to what he does best which is dunking. shooting is what Bargnani does best. So when bargnani sticks to do what he does best he's a low IQ player, lol. Bargnani had a .546 TS% last year which is about the same efficency as Jamison, Okafor, and Al Jefferson. He's been injured, and had a bad year shooting the ball. If he's capible of doing it over a while season then there's no reason to think his shooting% this year won't bounce back.

Actually, Bargnani's eFG% last season was .507, lower than everyone you mentioned. Hey, if you're happy with that, then enjoy your man. Congratulations should be in order. You have a streak shooting bigman that doesn't rebound, block shots, nor defends.

MVP Baby!

[Hendrix]

-= original quote snipped =-



Actually, Bargnani's eFG% last season was .507, lower than everyone you mentioned. Hey, if you're happy with that, then enjoy your man. Congratulations should be in order. You have a streak shooting bigman that doesn't rebound, block shots, nor defends.

MVP Baby!

You're reading comprehension is amazing. When did I say EFG%? I said TS% which is a better indicator of how efficinetly someone scores their points then EFG which excludes what they are doing at the line. And yes he does defend. Tsherkin said it, I've said it. Watch him play more maybe. But go ahead keep slamming bargs.

[HoopsGuru25]

Do you all think Bargnani would even get off the bench if his GM didn't make Mitchell play him so he won't be viewed as a bust? Bargnani has no above average skills besides spot up shooting. His post game is weak and his drives to the basket look like he's moving in slow motion. He does have a good pump fake though. It's amazing how Raptors fans keep overrating him. If Bargnani were 3-4 inches shorter he'd be Jason Kapono or Austin Croshere. Real talk...

[yungal07]

Bargnani has no above average skills besides spot up shooting. His post game is weak and his drives to the basket look like he's moving in slow motion. He does have a good pump fake though. It's amazing how Raptors fans keep overrating him. If Bargnani were 3-4 inches shorter he'd be Jason Kapono or Austin Croshere. Real talk...

end thread....

[hermes]

blatche

[Donkey McDonkerton]

youngal, there are some HOT a$$ women in Canada.

[Guy Smiley]

You're reading comprehension is amazing. When did I say EFG%? I said TS% which is a better indicator of how efficinetly someone scores their points then EFG which excludes what they are doing at the line. And yes he does defend. Tsherkin said it, I've said it. Watch him play more maybe. But go ahead keep slamming bargs.

I have watched a lot of Bargnani and to be honest I can't think of a player who has done so little and yet still gets so much adamant support. Is it good to be hopeful and maintain a certain level of patience with a young player? Sure, but there hasn't been a whole lot to grab on to besides a few flashes of competence.

I know many Raptor fans shun stats because Bargnani's ineptitude and total lack of production comes shining through when you look at almost any statistical breakdown. The fact remains he has been brutal on so many levels and that includes attitude and lack of personal growth.

As a Raptor fan I pray for the day he either wises up or gets traded but for now I will tolerate his utter disgracefulness and continue to walk through the landmine of homers that continually perpetuate the mythology that is Bargnani's current level of greatness. The gap between his actual current ability and his projected ceiling is beyond cavernous but based on my experience on this forum I would assume it was a foregone conclusion he was HOF material.

I can't stand his style of play and frown on his poor demeanor on the court. My utter distain for his game is only trumped by my utter disappointment in his dreadful progress.

[HarlemHeat37]

-= original quote snipped =-



You're reading comprehension is amazing. When did I say EFG%? I said TS% which is a better indicator of how efficinetly someone scores their points then EFG which excludes what they are doing at the line. And yes he does defend. Tsherkin said it, I've said it. Watch him play more maybe. But go ahead keep slamming bargs.

tsherkin, no capital letters..I know he's sensitive about that haha..jp..

[tsherkin]

-= original quote snipped =-



tsherkin, no capital letters..I know he's sensitive about that haha..jp..

*chuckles*

[nate33]

First of all, let's look at their pace-adjusted per-40 numbers:

Code: Select all

Player        PTS  REB  AST  STL  BLK   TO eFG%  TS%  PER
bargnani,and 16.8  6.5  2.0  0.4  0.8  2.4 .445 .486  9.3
blatche,andr 14.1 10.1  2.2  1.2  3.5  2.9 .465 .502 14.8

Blatche has pretty clearly been better than Bargnani so far. He beats him in nearly every statistical category and destroys him in PER. Furthermore, Blatche is a very good (albiet foul prone) defender whereas Bargnani's defense is woeful.

Blatche also has a better foundation to build on for the future. Typically, one can expect NBA players to steadily improve their shooting and basketball IQ over the years. Other aspects of the game: rebounding, man-to-man defense, court vision, tend to plateau pretty quickly. You either have the innate skill, desire, and athleticism to do these things, or you don't.

Blatche is good at the things where one doesn't expect improvement. He's mediocre (shooting) or bad (basketball IQ) at the things in which one expects improvement. Over time, it's pretty likely that Blatche will develop into a very capable starting-caliber big man, perhaps even a star.

Bargnani stinks at the things where one doesn't expect improvement. He is always going to be a poor defender and rebounder. And he's already good at shooting so there is limited upside there. He may find a niche as a jumpshooting big man like a Mehmet Okur or a (younger) Donyell Marshall, but it's pretty doubtful that he'll turn out to be an above-average starter.

To put it succinctly: Blatche is better than Bargnani now, he has more upside in the future, and he is younger. I think any GM in the league would prefer Blatche over Bargnani at this point.

[WesWesley]

To put it succinctly: Blatche is better than Bargnani now, he has more upside in the future, and he is younger. I think any GM in the league would prefer Blatche over Bargnani at this point.

Except for the reining executive of the year.

edit: your analysis fails one thing. you claim that bargnani is already a good shooter, and their isn't much room for improvement. However, this year his shot hasn't been falling that regularly. So his shooting stats are not even close to being what their potential is.

[nate33]

-= original quote snipped =-



Except for the reining executive of the year.

If the Wizards offered to trade Blatche for Bargnani straight up, Colangelo would jump on that deal. It's a no-brainer when you factor that Blatche was just locked into an absurdly cheap, 5-year, $15M contract.