Aside from Knicks, are we in the worst shape of any team?

[Kerb Hohl]

Ok, so looking at the standings, I narrowed it down to the bad teams this season(some teams may be decent for their expectations but basically everyone out of playoff contention + the teams fighting for the bottom 2 spots in the east):

New York
Chicago
Indiana
Milwaukee
Atlanta
Charlotte
Miami
Minnesota
Seattle
Sacramento
LA Clippers
Memphis
Philadelphia

Now, if we are looking for the team in the worst shape...that would be the team that is the worst now and has the worst chance to make something out of their current roster.

Teams that can be immediately subtracted from that list are:
Atlanta(A lot of solid young guys, maybe just a PG away)
Minnesota(They suck, but do have more reason for hope with cap flexibility/some very solid young players)
Seattle(Durant/Green/upcoming flexibility)
Memphis(Gay/Conley)
Philadelphia(After this year they are in great shape financially with a few young kids that look pretty good...they may have to break the bank if they want to bring Iggy back but the only major contract they have after this year is Dalembert, who is a pretty solid interior player)
Charlotte(They screwed up by taking on Richardson's gigantic contract but I would still say that they are in decent shape with their young guys and less money tied up in role guys(only Nazr really has a crappy contract))
New York(They are terrible and have the worst cap setup in league history IMO...this argument does not include them because they are screwed for a while).

I will say though, with the buying power of NY, they could do some smart things in the coming years to bring together some cohesive players, but I doubt it.

The reason why these teams are better than the Bucks(aside from NY) is that they all have young guys with superstar potential. There is a good chance that the majority of them may not pan out or they will surround their teams with crap and blow that potential...but, they at least have hope that if their GM does a decent job they can be contenders within a few years.
So that leaves us with
Indiana
Chicago
Sacramento
Milwaukee
Miami
LA Clippers

I think you can eliminate Chicago from there because while they are having serious issues, I think after they clear up all the smoke from their greedy contract disputes they will at least be a respectable team in the east again.

I would eliminate Miami as well because as bad as they have been they have J-Will/Davis as expiring contracts and they might get Gordon/Beasley/Rose/Mayo to play on their team. Plus, if these 2 commodities can get back to health/their old form they will be good again:
1. D-Wade
2. The refs(an extension of D-Wade)

The 4 teams you could argue are the Clippers, Bucks, Pacers, and Kings...

We have Bogut and Yi as guys with superstar potential(yeah, I know Yi has looked crappy lately), kinda CV and Mo still has a lot of developing to do. The problem is, other than Bogut...none of those guys play championship style D or team ball. Redd has led us to 41 wins tops, and I doubt we are getting there this year. With a solid middle man as Bogut and hopefully Yi developing as an offensive force in the coming years, we could have a potent attack but here is the key...we need better role players...and we have our top scorers locked up to large to mega deals and our bench guys are locked into substantial(or theft-worthy in Gadz's case) contracts. Yeah, we've squandered our cap flexibility recent years but it's better to have it than not. We only have 2 options at this point for any hope of success:
1. Miracle trade that brings in the right brew of players and starts a winning atmosphere.
2. Roll the dice and hope this current team gels into a cohesive, competitive squad in 2 years (about a 1/1000 chance)...we would also have to hope that Redd defers to our other guys and somehow we learn to play a lick of defense.

I guess you could add a 3rd option:
3. Pray for the lottery balls to fall our way or steal a superstar with a mid-lotto pick.

As for the other 3 contenders:
LA Clippers: I would say they are in a better position. The reason their record is as bad as it is this year is Brand is out...they will probably re-sign Brand soon or if he doesn't opt out, they have a solid C/PF combo for many years still. The injury to Livingston sucks but they will have some decent flexibility in coming years...I would not put them down on our level at all.

Indiana: This would have to be the only other team I can consider. They have a similar collection of crappy contracts coupled with a bad mesh of talent. JO's contract is similar to Redd's...and they too have a few bright spots of young guys, mostly Granger.

Sacramento: Artest is off the books next year most likely but they still don't have much flexibility. They've got Salmons, Martin(who they will have to pay some $$$ to soon, Garcia, and even though I hate him...Hawes). Decent young talent but I don't see much success on the horizon.

In conclusion, I'd say it's us or Indiana with the bleakest futures as of now in the NBA...thoughts?

[blkout]

I think Miami is in worse shape. I'm not a Wade fan, but they also have Shaq's ridiculous contract on the books for like 2 more seasons and not much in the way of young developing talent outside Dorell Wright. They might get a good pick but they are going to be a revolving door team mostly since they'll be relying on one year rental guys like Davis until Shaq goes away.

[Kerb Hohl]

That is a pretty good point...now that I'm looking at their structure having Shaq on the books does suck for them. I didn't see that Mark Blount contract either...I guess you could probably include them too.

[jeremyd236]

Sorry I don't have the time to read your whole post, but if you're talking about contractually, then we are in pretty bad shape.

But let's not forget we have the 3rd youngest starting lineup in the NBA. It definitely can't get worse in that regard.

[d-wegz]

I agree with the dude above me. I think Miami is in the worst shape. There only real bright spot is wade. Although you could really argue that wade and his ref's are a good combo for the heat, but they have a bunch of so-so talented guys. Shaq is obviously a huge financial problem. The only real guys with some promise outside of wade to me are wright and cook.

Milwaukee, they just have a really really bad mix of talent, not quite as bad as the knicks, but still not very good.

[ReasonablySober]

Miami isn't in bad shape.

They have Wade, they have South Beach. As long as they've got those two they'll always be in good shape. Add a high lotto pick this year and all of the sudden they've got a core that's probably a lot better than ours.

I even think, that if they really wanted to, they could deal Shaq at some point in the next year to a contender that wants what little the Diesel has left. Dallas and Mark Cuban, I'm talking to you.

[Badgerlander]

Miami is in terrible shape. They are in cap hell. Indiana is too. They have Granger, an injured O'Neal that nobody is going to trade for with his contract, and a bunch of bad contracts in Murphy and Dunleavy. I don't think we are that bad off really. At least we have talent worth trading for. I think people undervalue our players because we aren't winning. I just hope we don't make a trade just to make a change and end up doing something stupid like the ray allen trade. I think CV has a ton of talent and potential, but unfortunately the teams that need him don't have players available at our positions of need. I think its going to take 2 or 3 trades to fix the team and if one falls through we are stuck with an unbalanced roster.

[jerrod]

to me, it's pretty unlikely that miami or new york could be in worse shape than us

contracts can be moved and new front office people can be brought in, but having tons of cash and being a free agent destination makes up for a lot of other failures

[InsideOut]

I'd switch places with Miami in a second. They have Wade...he's a 1st team all NBA superstar. We have nobody close to that. As was mentioned, they have Miami Beach. Players would love to be able to be to play in that warm fun city. Yes, Shaq's contract could be a problem. However, there is a chance he gets fired up and gets in shape again. If he would get serious again he would help them a lot. They also could be looking at a top 3 pick at the next draft. So they do have some potential positives. What are the Buck's potential positives?

[Bucks_Revenge]

i don't think so we are like what the Blazers were a few years ago we have some nice young talent but it's going to take some time for us to develop and gel together. we keep getting a new coach every 2 seasons how are we suppose to win like that just give it sometime.

[blkout]

Wade has injury problems, he's lead the team to nothing on his own this season when he has played... I'm not sure many teams will be looking to take Shaq and his 20+ million a season for 14/8 (at best). They also have absolutely no tradeable pieces outside of Wade and the pick. South Beach sure helped them attract the big names this off-season, Smush Parker! Miami's "core" is Wade and... Haslem is a good role player, Dorrell Wright is ok, Shaq doesn't exist. That isn't a core, and Wade isn't that great.

The Bucks have at least 5 very tradeable players, they have guys with stacks of potential (Yi, Bogut, Mo), they have a great offensive player who could be traded for some value, they'll most likely have a lottery pick, possibly top 8 in this upcoming draft.

Not to mention, the Heat this season (and don't mention Shaq, lets face it, when he has 20/10 these days people are shocked... hell, when he plays more than 5 games in a row people are shocked and it isn't exactly going to get better from here) have won 9 games less than the Bucks!

[WEFFPIM]

New Jersey seems to be in a tough spot as well, but the Bucks certainly are in the Top (or bottom) 3

[ReasonablySober]

Wade has injury problems, he's lead the team to nothing on his own this season when he has played... I'm not sure many teams will be looking to take Shaq and his 20+ million a season for 14/8 (at best). They also have absolutely no tradeable pieces outside of Wade and the pick. South Beach sure helped them attract the big names this off-season, Smush Parker! Miami's "core" is Wade and... Haslem is a good role player, Dorrell Wright is ok, Shaq doesn't exist. That isn't a core, and Wade isn't that great.

The Bucks have at least 5 very tradeable players, they have guys with stacks of potential (Yi, Bogut, Mo), they have a great offensive player who could be traded for some value, they'll most likely have a lottery pick, possibly top 8 in this upcoming draft.

Not to mention, the Heat this season (and don't mention Shaq, lets face it, when he has 20/10 these days people are shocked... hell, when he plays more than 5 games in a row people are shocked and it isn't exactly going to get better from here) have won 9 games less than the Bucks!

I should have stopped reading right there, but I'll humor you.

Shaq's contract lasts all of two more seasons. That means that if they don't deal him to a contender in need of some size in the paint this offseason, they go into 2009-2010 with one of the greatest expiring contracts in recent memory.

That same season, with the exception of three guys on rookie deals (Cook, 2008 first rounder, 2009 first rounder), every other player will be in their final season. Shaq, Haslem, Blount and even Wade if he opts out (which he'll probably do).

If Wade wants a new deal with Miami, they'll have an incredible amount of cap space to throw at anyone out there. They can also trade that 2009 first rounder and bring back a max player. With Wade and South Beach, I don't think they'll have any problems finding guys that would like to go down there and play.

[InsideOut]

The Bucks have at least 5 very tradeable players, they have guys with stacks of potential (Yi, Bogut, Mo), they have a great offensive player who could be traded for some value, they'll most likely have a lottery pick, possibly top 8 in this upcoming draft.

You should be in sales. You make it sound like the Bucks are in great shape instead of bad shape. That's not easy to do. Who are our 5 very tradeable players?

[Kerb Hohl]

New Jersey seems to be in a tough spot as well, but the Bucks certainly are in the Top (or bottom) 3

I would agree with that...totally forgot about NJ.

[Kerb Hohl]

i don't think so we are like what the Blazers were a few years ago we have some nice young talent but it's going to take some time for us to develop and gel together. we keep getting a new coach every 2 seasons how are we suppose to win like that just give it sometime.

I can kinda see what you're seeing, but instead of trying to play for moderate success and keep around their ball-hogging, yet very good offensive player who is hindering the development of their young guys in Randolph, they decided to part ways and blow up their team in some ways.

Yes, they had the rookie of the year in Roy who is turning into a stellar player and that is a luxury we don't have, but they realized that you play for a high-level of competition in this league, not to win 40 games.

Bogut and Aldridge are similar in experience and productivity, but they also have some young guys that are playing well in roles...Outlaw, Webster, Frye.

They now have a situation where they can bring in a few veterans to make a good mix in the short term and they can bring back their studs for the long-term...they also have this guy Oden waiting in the wings.

The difference between us and the Blazers is they have cut the crap off the side of their team and I have no problem watching a 30-win team with 4 starters in their first 2 years in the league or something similar to that developing together. Our team looks like it is never going to develop any sort of intensity or cohesiveness and we also have a bunch of bench guys clogging up 30+ mil/year and a max contract on top...and we are locked into that for 2-3 years.

[Kerb Hohl]

Sorry I don't have the time to read your whole post, but if you're talking about contractually, then we are in pretty bad shape.

But let's not forget we have the 3rd youngest starting lineup in the NBA. It definitely can't get worse in that regard.

Which age are they using when calculating that? The one that says Yi is 17 or whatever or the true one that shows he is 23 or whatever he is.

Honestly, though...The Hawks of a few years ago or Sonics or a team like those that can argue a young roster developing...can you honestly see us putting something together if we just keep the status quo?

Unless Redd learns to play within the offense, Bobby Simmons mistakenly gets removed from the payroll, and Mo learns to play defense...I can't see this lineup going anywhere no matter how long you give it.

[Stopshere2]

We have 4 players who were drafted in the first round (Bogut, CV, Yi, Des). The league average is 8 or 9 first round picks per team.
It is astounding that we are (almost) competitive with so many players who were regarded so lightly at draft time, if they were drafted at all.
Add in the fact that none of our 1st round picks are superstars or even allstars and we look to be even less competitive.

The level of individual improvement that can be obtained from the current roster is questionable. Can Bogut improve over his January performances or even hold that level? Is Yi really a guy who can become an allstar? Who else has the capacity to significantly improve over what we're seeing right now?

Without several upgrades, we will swim at the bottom of the East with New York.

[jokeboy86]

The thing with the Bucks is like the Knicks they have no idea what direction they want to take. Teams like Charlotte, Atlanta, and Philly know they are young and are hoping for the playoffs but know they are still in the rebuilding/stockpiling draft pick stages. Teams like Indiana, Chicago, and New Jersey will decide whether they'll make any big trades for a last push or go with the youth movement. And as for Miami I can't see this lasting for more than a season, and if they get either the 1 or 2 pick it won't. Contrary to what people say about the owner, the Knicks will be fine when Isiah is gone simple as that.

I think the problem with the Bucks is unlike all these teams above and the others in the East, they have the most to lose off the court. I can't imagine any of the other teams in the East having fan interest so low locally. The Bucks are in financial hell off the court, they have tried to hide this many times and its affecting the way the team is run. People already don't care about the Bucks being 7th or 8th every year, imagine if they said they were rebuilding for the future.

[blkout]

You should be in sales. You make it sound like the Bucks are in great shape instead of bad shape. That's not easy to do. Who are our 5 very tradeable players?

They'd be in decent shape with a competent GM/owner, there are pieces to work with. The tradeable players are Bogut, Yi, Redd, Williams, Villanueva. What I mean by tradeable is that if they were to be traded they would fetch some quality in return, unlike the Heat who just have empty contracts no one wants.

I should have stopped reading right there, but I'll humor you.

I have no interest in the rantings of a Wade fan boy.