Having Korver makes the Jazz a significantly better team.

[sodapop]

Again, I point to Matt Harpring who does nothing on the Court other than get his own points....... So, where's the consistency?

He does what the coaches ask him to. That's consistency that makes the other 4 players on the floor better as opposed to Giricek who made them worse by cutting plays.

It's been fun, but point proved about the Sloan haters. It's an irrational hate fostered by conspiracy theories after Sloan killed the Easter bunny with his tractor.

[red4hf]

Why aren't you complaining about letting Greg Foster go, or Adam Keefe.

Don't compare either one to Giricek...... Giri was a STAR in his own country, one of the best players overall in Europe, and a good NBA player......

And if Giri was so terrible, why did we give him a 4 year entension?

He does what the coaches ask him to.

No, the Coaches ask him to play defense, he doesn't...... The Coaches require all Jazz players to move the ball, Harpring doesn't.......

That's consistency that makes the other 4 players on the floor better as opposed to Giricek who made them worse by cutting plays.

Really? So how come the last few years Giri's +/- ratio has been equal or much better than Harpring's? Explain that to me.......

It's been fun, but point proved about the Sloan haters. It's an irrational hate fostered by conspiracy theories after Sloan killed the Easter bunny with his tractor.

It's funny, people think just because Sloan said something it has to be true...... You'd think he was God or something to these people...... It's simply pathetic....... I don't blame Sloan for everything, I don't hate him, but there's no denying that for the vast majority of his coaching career he rode the coat tails of 2 hall of famers....... His record without them is average, and that's being generous.......

[Jazzfan Bayamon]

Wow red, give a rest will you?

Giri sucked, he was stupid, and he didn't do what he was supposed to. PERIOD!!!!!

Harp may not be as good a defender anymore, but he does play D. That it's not good, that's another story, but it's not as if he just doesn't give a ****. He also runs the plays that are run where he is mostly just a spot up shooter. Those shots he puts up are all GOOD shots. They are not forced or 1-on-1 shots like you make it out to be, and like Giri ended up taking. Korver does the same thing (what Giri was supposed to do, and did for a while in the playoffs). When they take GOOD shots, withIN the offense, Sloan doesn't mind much. May you note that Sloan's had a rather quick leash on Harpring this year, and as soon as his effectiveness diminishes, AK's back in. Same whith Korver.

Giri's fate in Utah is HIS fault, not Sloan's, just like Arroyo's was also HIS fault, and not Sloan's. And look how both have turned out. Mind you, both have had their respective career years with the Jazz under Sloan.

You should seek profesional help.

[Pai Gow]

Yeah seriously, who gives a flying **** if Gordan was a STAR in his own country???? Doesn't mean you're a good basketball player, Jesus, was that really an argument I just heard??

I still haven't had you explain to me why he only attempted 1 free throw this entire season for the Jazz IF he was such a great driver like you pimped him to be..

[idajazz]

Don't compare either one to Giricek...... Giri was a STAR in his own country, one of the best players overall in Europe, and a good NBA player......

Then leave harp out of the argument

Jeemanee crickets Red. You sound like somebody with an obsession.

Gira Chuck sucked. end of story

You can't lay it on Slown. Why even try?
I actually have to give ol Sloanie some credit for how he has managed things this year.

[red4hf]

Giri sucked, he was stupid, and he didn't do what he was supposed to. PERIOD!!!!!

OK, I guess I have to listen, since you used caps and a bunch of exclamation points.......

Harp may not be as good a defender anymore, but he does play D.

Umm, OK...... That makes no sense........

That it's not good, that's another story, but it's not as if he just doesn't give a ****.

Actually it's exactly that....... He plays dumb, he plays out of control, and he doesn't do what the team wants him to do, since other players are constantly yelling at him to get back to covering his own man.......

He also runs the plays that are run where he is mostly just a spot up shooter. Those shots he puts up are all GOOD shots.

I'm not arguing with that.......

They are not forced or 1-on-1 shots like you make it out to be, and like Giri ended up taking

Sure, we run plays that emphasise Harpring's strength, so why didn't we do the same with Giri?

Why did Sloan make Giri be a jump shooter when his strength is slashing to the basket?

May you note that Sloan's had a rather quick leash on Harpring this year, and as soon as his effectiveness diminishes, AK's back in. Same whith Korver.

No, that had to do with Harpring's injuries, not his peformance........ As has been made clear in the media time and time again.......

You should seek profesional help.

For what? For not following the crowd like all of you? OK.......

Yeah seriously, who gives a flying **** if Gordan was a STAR in his own country???? Doesn't mean you're a good basketball player, Jesus, was that really an argument I just heard??

Yes it was...... Croatia is a powerhouse in European basketball, and Giri was a very good player in the Euroleague, which is very much comparable to the NBA in terms of talent.......

I still haven't had you explain to me why he only attempted 1 free throw this entire season for the Jazz IF he was such a great driver like you pimped him to be..

Because he wasn't allowed to drive....... Because all Sloan wanted him to do was spot up and shoot jump shots, you don't get free throws that way.......

Then leave harp out of the argument

That has to do with Sloan's consistency........

Jeemanee crickets Red. You sound like somebody with an obsession.

Gira Chuck sucked. end of story

No, not end of story, what you say simply isn't true...... And it's not supported by the facts...... You can argue it all you want, it doesn't make it any more true...... I'm not obsessed with Sloan, like some of you, who seem to worship his every move......

None of you have yet explained it to me, if Harpring is such a team oriented player and does all the things that are supposed to make the team great, and Giri doesn't, why is Giri's +/- equal (and some seasons much better) than Harpring's? And again, if Giri sucked so much, why did we give him a 4 year extention?

[ColdBlue]

I'm with you, Red. Giri wasn't a great player or anything, but he was the most consistent shooting guard we had, and his stats back it up.

I'm glad at least one guy in this forum isn't a bandwagoneer.

[stevebozell]

Make it 2 others, I agree with you and Red completely. Hey Blue, why did you get suspended by the way? I know guys who dare go against the masses seem to get suspended because of the spines of certain people around here. What did you do?

[ColdBlue]

Make it 2 others, I agree with you and Red completely. Hey Blue, why did you get suspended by the way? I know guys who dare go against the masses seem to get suspended because of the spines of certain people around here. What did you do?

I expressed my true feelings of what I think of the majority of people on this forum.

I knew I would get suspended doing so, but hey civil disobedience is a virtue.

[Jazzfan Bayamon]

They gave Arroyo the same extension.

Second, when Gira was brought to the Jazz he was brought AS A SHOOTER!!!!

If we wanted a slasher, we'd kept DeShawn, who was actually having a preatty good season that year.

On D, you can be a good defender and not play D, like Memo. I can say Memo is an avg.+ defender, but he sometimes does NOT play D. Harp always plays D. And what you say about yelling and ****, that's what you can call TEAM DEFENSE. That's how TEAM defense works. Hapring plays, hard, does what is asked of him, and doesn't whine and bitch about it.

Hell, let's take Brewer for example. Brewer has made a fair share of mid-range jump shots this season (a good surprise), but you can't expect him to be a shooter, right? So how come Brewer CAN actually spot up and shoot (and make) those shots and Gira was "harmed" because he as a slasher (like Brewer) was told to DO THE FREAKING SAME THING!?!?!?!?

The difference is Brewer (has done as told) is in the rookie/sophmore game, and is a good candidate for MIP, while Gira (didn't) is rotting on another (Sloanless) team's bench.

[stevebozell]

They gave Arroyo the same extension.

And what do you think of Arroyo now? Was he "stupid" as you called Gira, or did Sloan not handle him properly? Come clean.

[loserX]

This thread has 2 scoops of craz-ins.

[ColdBlue]

-= original quote snipped =-



And what do you think of Arroyo now? Was he "stupid" as you called Gira, or did Sloan not handle him properly? Come clean.

Heh.. that might tug at some loyalties.

[Jazzfan Bayamon]

-= original quote snipped =-



And what do you think of Arroyo now? Was he "stupid" as you called Gira, or did Sloan not handle him properly? Come clean.

I think the situation (the media especially) turned on Arroyo, as he became a sort of "scapegoat" for the team starting to lose because he had missed the first 6 games and the team played for 5-1 or something like that.

However, I DO KNOW, that Arroyo handled the situation HORRIBLY. Of course, Arroyo is Puerto Rican, that means a culturally developed (US domination) inferiority complex, and because he was (still is, but less) such an icon down here, I'm sure he felt the pressure to be "great" and was very defensive about it. Actually our local media kept blaming the Jazz organization just as the SLC media started to "blame" or actually hint at Arroyo as the problem.

And, Sloan actually kept Arroyo as starter untill Arroyo flipped at him, or said something... it was labeled the "gesture" at that time. Since then, it deteriorated from both parts untill he was traded.

What Arroyo had to do was SHUT UP and do his best to do what was asked of him, and step up to let his game "do the talking". He didn't. He whined, he complained, he got traded.

Look at where Arroyo is now, and where the Jazz are now...

Same thing applies to Giricek.

[Pai Gow]

I'm with you, Red. Giri wasn't a great player or anything, but he was the most consistent shooting guard we had, and his stats back it up.

I'm glad at least one guy in this forum isn't a bandwagoneer.

Oh please, I was hatin on Gordan before it became cool

[ColdBlue]

-= original quote snipped =-

He whined, he complained, he got traded.

I liked Arroyo. He really could have helped this team out. What was his problem?

[Jazzfan Bayamon]

-= original quote snipped =-



I liked Arroyo. He really could have helped this team out. What was his problem?

He got an ankle injury last preseason game that year. It was a high (er) expectation year as the year before we'd had 42 wins with Ruffin, Gugliota, Ostertag and Collins as our main bigs and Harp injured over half a season. Arroyo was coming from his team USA beatdown in Athens, and the Jazz had just added Boozer and Okur.

So what happened?? Our team blazed off the game without Arroyo, so it put MORE pressure on him to come in and win. We started to lose, and everyone blamed him. His game was affected by all that and truthfully, he wasn't playing all that good (at that time).

The problem was he took all that and retaliated, defended himself to the media (our media mostly) instead of SHUTING UP, sucking it up, and working hard (as he had done before, and was commended by Sloan for doing so) to get his game back on track. He blamed Sloan and the organization, and looked what happened. Hell, Arroyo then proceded to have similar problems in both Detroit and Orlando with their coaches, but to a lesser scale.

[stevebozell]

You have excuese out the *ss for Arroyo, your fellow countryman, but bash Gira who had many more excuses than your boy did. Your proving you have no objectivity on this issue.

[Jazzfan Bayamon]

You have excuese out the *ss for Arroyo, your fellow countryman, but bash Gira who had many more excuses than your boy did. Your proving you have no objectivity on this issue.

WHAT???

I've said the SAME thing for both of them.

Bottom line...

They didn't do what were told to, whined, pouted, complained, got traded. PERIOD.

I explained the details of the Arroyo drama because I had more details about it, but it was still Arroyo's fault that he didn't shut up, suck it up and get the job done. The same thing Gira failed to do. However Gira had 4 years to get it, and he still didn't.

[stevebozell]

No, you called Gira stupid, while giving excuses for Arroyos behavior. I believe Sloan mishandled both of them, even though I didnt care for Arroyo muc. He obviously didnt get a completely fair shake from Sloan.