Kidd trade?

[BeesWax]

I don't think Kidd does our team any good but Dallas and NJ are looking for a third team and I thought we might be able to help. If we were willing to make this move I think it would help us in the long run.

Charlotte trades:
Felton
May
Morrison
Harrington(expiring)
Protected First (top 10-08 top 5-09 unprotected 10)

Gets:
Bass
Diop
Harris

Dallas trades:
Stackhouse
Bass
Harris
Diop
George
1st round pick 08 & 10

Gets:
Kidd

NJ Trades:
Kidd

Gets
Charlotte protected 1st
2 Dallas unprotected firsts
George
Stackhouse
Morrison
May
Harrington
Felton

The number of players used is really high but it will have to be no matter what teams are involved because of the 19 mill kidd makes. The other option I saw was to send Emeka to NJ instead of Harrington but then Charlotte would need to get something more back than just Harris.

[spectre_]

Dallas won't trade both Diop and Bass, but I'd happily give up everything you listed but the pick for Harris and Diop (or possibly Bass). Since it's OR between the bigs and not AND that should work.

I like the thought of getting in on the 3 way.

[Walt Cronkite]

Kinky

[BeesWax]

If you take out Bass you have to add someone. It could be either Ager or Barea. If we are not getting both Bass and Diop I would still give up the pick but make the protection a little better than before. Getting Harris is the key because we then have our point guard of the future locked up long term.

2nd option. I don't like it but some of you will.

Drop out Bass send Diop to NJ and send Williams to Charlotte. Leave the protection on the pick the way it was in the first senario. I don't like Williams but some of you guys do so this is another option that could work.

[spectre_]

If you take out Bass you have to add someone. It could be either Ager or Barea. If we are not getting both Bass and Diop I would still give up the pick but make the protection a little better than before. Getting Harris is the key because we then have our point guard of the future locked up long term.

2nd option. I don't like it but some of you will.

Drop out Bass send Diop to NJ and send Williams to Charlotte. Leave the protection on the pick the way it was in the first senario. I don't like Williams but some of you guys do so this is another option that could work.

This is tricky because of BYC & poison pill. I've ran thru a bunch of scenarios but didn't really like anything I could get to work. Generally we end up with a net loss of 2 players (granted two of those are out for the season) and at best we get back Harris & Diop. Not that bad, but you also have to give up Hammer too, leaving us gutted at the 2.

Of course Vincent would probably play Harris at the two...so maybe that wouldn't be a problem after all.

New Jersey would have to cut 2 or 3 players too and they'd need to be expirings (Dallas can only give up to 3 million and I don't feel we need to give cash).

If it's hard for us to work out it'd probably be next to impossible to do in real life.

[Paydro70]

While I think this would be a very good trade for us, and not all that unbalanced, I don't see New Jersey finding space for SIX new players AND 3 picks on their roster, or Dallas losing 5 guys.

[W_HAMILTON]

I'm kind of liking this trading Felton to NJ idea. But I don't want to get too crazy.

I wouldn't mind getting in on a prospective Kidd trade, though.

If the Nets give up Kidd, they are probably going to begin their rebuilding process.

Would they want Felton as a PG, at the expense of giving up S.Williams and M.Williams?

If we were part of a Kidd deal that helped facilitated a trade, where we gave up Felton + another young guy (maybe Hollins?), and possibly some of our expirings to help out another team, would it be asking too much to get S.Williams and M.Williams in return?

Hmm, I'll try to think of some trades.

[W_HAMILTON]

How about a three-way, LAL/NJN/CHA (edit, fine tuned it a bit):

NJN trades: Jason Kidd, Sean Williams, Marcus Williams, Jamaal Magloire
NJN receives: Lamar Odom, Raymond Felton, Ronny Turiaf, Kwame Brown, Trevor Ariza

LAL trades: Lamar Odom, Ronny Turiaf, Kwame Brown, Trevor Ariza
LAL receives: Jason Kidd, Jamaal Magloire, Ryan Hollins, Othella Harrington

CHA trades: Raymond Felton, Ryan Hollins, Othella Harrington
CHA receives: S.Williams, M.Williams


*********************************************

LAL gets J.Kidd and a center that can fill in till Bynum gets back, NJN actually receives players that can go either way -- they can "rebuild on the fly" and go with a lineup of Brown/Odom/Richardson/Carter/Felton, and if it's not successful, most of those guys only have 1-2 years left on their contract, so they are not committed long-term. And CHA gets an athletic PF with size that can guard the quicker PFs in the league, and another project PG to replace the project PG that never seemed to work here.

I'd probably have to fiddle with it some more, since I'm sure the Lakers wouldn't want to give up all those big men. I don't know what NJ thinks of their Williams twins. I imagine they really like S.Williams, but M.Williams never seemed to get much of an opportunity.

[spectre_]

That's pretty good!

IMO it's too big though, esp. since LAL & NJ have the right pieces to do it in a 2 way deal.

Odom/Brown/Farmar/08 1st for Kidd would work...and if need be there's enough room left for NJ to throw a player like Allen back to LAL to clear a roster spot.

Good/great player (Odom), expiring (Brown), young potential (Farmar) plus a pick is usually the minimum cost for a player like Kidd.

Teams like Dallas are better to target in 3 way deals because of the restrictions and they don't have good salaries to trade (low contracts plus "core" high contracts that they don't want to move).

[Paydro70]

Before I really read it, I saw "S.Williams, M.Williams" and thought we were taking on Marvin and Shelden.

Marcus I don't see much potential in... he shoots a lot, and not especially well, and he's got attitude problems. I don't see that as an improvement over Ray. So we might be downgrading our PG position in order to take Sean Williams' potential. That's good I guess, but I feel like what we need is a big man who plays offense, not another shot-blocker.

I also don't think LAL is going to give up Odom in a deal for Kidd. They don't want to weaken their team if they're morgaging their future.

[W_HAMILTON]

I assumed since there was talk about LAL wanting Kidd, that they would be willing to give up Odom. If they aren't going to give up Kobe/Odom/Bynum, what the hell are they willing to offer for Kidd? Some of their young talent is nice, but not that damn nice.

[spectre_]

I assumed since there was talk about LAL wanting Kidd, that they would be willing to give up Odom. If they aren't going to give up Kobe/Odom/Bynum, what the hell are they willing to offer for Kidd? Some of their young talent is nice, but not that damn nice.

I think Odom would have to be in the deal (which is why they won't do both Odom & Turiaf). Unless I'm mistaken the package being debated last year was what I put up plus Bynum, with his inclusion being the sticking point for the Lakers. Due to Kidd now asking for a trade and the difficulty of getting a deal to work due to his salary I'd guess Odom/Brown/Farmar/pick is about the best they can hope to get.

BTW, your deal leaves the Nets with only Felton and Armstrong as their PGs. On top of that they're supposedly pretty high on Sean...which further hinders that trade idea.

[Paydro70]

Well, as the Gasol deal kind of shows, you never get fair value. If the Lakers had gone for Kidd, they probably would only have had to give up a similar package, maybe with Farmar instead of Crittendon or something.

[spectre_]

Well, as the Gasol deal kind of shows, you never get fair value. If the Lakers had gone for Kidd, they probably would only have had to give up a similar package, maybe with Farmar instead of Crittendon or something.

I don't know that the Gasol trade set a precedent. If the stories are true Memphis was looking for one thing in particular and that was a big expiring. Supposedly the owner is wanting to cut player costs down (which in turn would cut the red ink down) in hopes of attracting a buyer for the team.

There weren't that many "Kwames" out there.

[Paydro70]

They want cap relief, of course... that's what the Nets will want as well, Kwame was supposed to be a part of a LAL-NJN deal as well, as Hamilton noted. It's true there aren't so many big expirings out there... Theo Ratliff, Jason Williams, etc., and they're not so often on the good teams that would want Kidd.

But it didn't have to be much more salary to make the Gasol deal look good. Turiaf, for instance, would have been a nice throw-in. A 2nd rounder. Surely something better was out there for them.

But the Gasol trade wasn't the precedent-setter; you never get equal value. Lamar Odom last got traded as the signature piece in the Shaq deal. AI only yielded Andre Miller. KG got Al Jefferson (before he was AL JEFFERSON). TMac got Steve Francis. Vince Carter got... stuff?

All of those players were still in their prime (maybe except Shaq) and much better than Jason Kidd is playing right now. So fine, if other teams still think he's a superstar on par with AI and KG, maybe they'll give someone like Odom back. If the other teams are smart they won't, but I guess he's a big name and sells tickets.

The other thing to consider is that the Nets are NOT a very good team, and will probably be blowing up the whole squad and trading VC/RJ soon. If so, they're going to want serious youth in return, not a veteran like Odom.