Low Post options- Young and Dala?

[barkley34]

We don't just need a post scorer.

We need a post scorer that commands a double team. There is a big difference from a guy who can score in the post and a guy who forces teams to double him.

Like Korver, Thad might become a decent post up player but teams will not double him.


We need a guy that gets doubled to open up the game for everybody else.

[The Guilty Party]

First of all.. I don't believe there's a wrong answer between the two of them.

That said, it's been a while since Gasol has lead a team to a winning record and so while we might have some concerns about Amare playing the role of "the" man on a team... I think I feel better worrying that he will somehow drop off than thinking Gasol will suddenly blossom back into a franchise bigman.

[The Guilty Party]

Also, while Nash is perhaps the best PG in the game and Marion is an excellent all-around player... it's not as though either of them are dominant scorers that Amare plays #2 to. If he came to Philly, he would most likely find himself on a roster once again that features a veteran PG in Andre Miller who does an excellent job of involving his teammates and another excellent all-around player in Iguodala.

Obviously there's a drop-off in talent but I don't believe we would be asking Stoudemire to play much of a different role here than he does in Phoenix.

[tk76]

Memphis is giving up on Gasol because they don't think he fits their uptempo system. Are they off base, becasue I presume we want to build an uptempo squad here too- and Sam and Amare would be the ideal (unbeatable?) PF/C combo for an uptempo team.

[dbodner]

A guy who commands a double team in the post is a tremendous asset. But a guy who commands a double team AND has the ability to pass out of the double team is a guy who turns a team around. And he's a good defender? Now you've really got something. Amare's a more dominant post scorer, but I believe Gasol's post scoring would have a bigger effect on the rest of our team. And I do believe Gasol's a superior defender, pretty handily.

I'm also not sure what the "thinking Gasol will suddenly blossom back into a franchise bigman" comment stems from. Gasol averaged 21/10 with 3.4 assists and 2.1 blocks per game while shooting 54%. If he wasn't wasting away in Memphis we wouldn't have a shot of even talking about him. He might not be a #1 in the truest sense of the word, but I do believe he's a franchise big man.

[The Guilty Party]

I respect Gasol's game but I'm just not a fan of the fact that he's not only been on a lot of losing teams but teams that really aren't that competitive on a nightly basis.

I assume that Memphis is supposedly looking to move him for a reason, right? Something obviously isn't clicking down there and perhaps he just needs to go to a different place to win but I wonder why he isn't able to elevate that team to be better than what they are.

Is the talent level in Memphis worse than here? Granted the West is the stronger conference but even if Memphis was in the East, my guess is that their win total would be close to what it is now.

[dbodner]

Take that entire post you just made, but substitute Gasol for Garnett, and Memphis for Minnesota. Should Garnett not have been able to elevate his team to a record better than 65-99 his last two years there? See the fallacy in your argument?

That team's a mess, personnel wise, and plays no defense. As Garnett has shown even he's incapable of turning garbage into gold. The fact that Gasol hasn't been able to isn't an indictment on him, IMO. Remember, before Phoenix got Nash, Amare went for 20.6 ppg, 9.0 rpg, while playing with Joe Johnson and Shawn Marion, and the team went 29-53. Nobody (except maybe Duncan and LeBron) is going to turn this around by themselves. Not Gasol, and not Amare.

[tk76]

I doubt we could get a deal done for either.

We could offer this years lottery pick, Utahs' crappy future #1, Miller (expiring next year) and Smith. I guess we could throw in Iguodala, but


I still don't know if that gets it done- and it guts our team. We would have cap space this summer to replace Miller with Calderon, but we would still have a glaring hole at SG without a number one pick or the $'s to address it

Making the move without Iguodala would be a steal, but it just won't be enough to get the deal done. Memphis I'm sure would have better offers.

[The Guilty Party]

Good points dabods but I guess I have to ask the following... what's different about Philly than what Memphis currently has? Garnett is going to be the MVP this year in Boston mostly because he has Allen and Pierce playing next to him. If Gasol comes here, we don't have two superstars to vault us to the top and probably won't have any cap space or picks if we trade for him.

Does the addition of Gasol make us a contender?

[The Guilty Party]

Also... dabods, where did you get the averages you mentioned above? Gasol is averaging a little over 18/8 this season. If those were his averages when the team was good... then that is what I am talking about when I wondered if Gasol would develop back into a franchise big. His stats right now aren't as impressive as they once were.

Again though... let me say that I think the addition of Gasol would be great. I'm just playing the role of devil's advocate here. I could do a lot of the same with Amare.

[UptownPhilly]

I take Gasol over Amare. Better post game, more durable

[The Guilty Party]

More durable?? Wait, Amare did have the knee injury but Gasol has missed 20+ games in 2 of the last 3 seasons and is currently out due to a sore back. Gasol does some things better than Amare but he isn't a picture of health either.

[UptownPhilly]

More durable?? Wait, Amare did have the knee injury but Gasol has missed 20+ games in 2 of the last 3 seasons and is currently out due to a sore back. Gasol does some things better than Amare but he isn't a picture of health either.

It was just that knee injury I was concerned about.

[The Guilty Party]

I can understand that but Amare did play all 82 games last year and hasn't missed any significant time this year.

Trying to find problems with either of these two is a bit crazy. I like Gasol's passing but I think I like that Amare is 2 years younger and is usually the more dominant player.

[UptownPhilly]

You can't go wrong with either one of them. Would anyone be interested in doing something like this.


Trading Miller for an expiring, even if it doesn't bring back a first or young talent(let's say Miller straight up for Kwame Brown)

Then sign Josh Smith for 10-12 million, and then Antawn Jamison for the MLE(if we can't get him, then another solid PF???)

We draft Bayless to play PG.

Bayless/Williams
Iguodala/Carney/Green
Smith/Young/
Jamison/Evans/Hill
Dalembert/Smith/Booth

[The Guilty Party]

I like your thinking but we won't have a MLE since we are under the cap and even if we did, why would Jamison sign for that amount here and not with a contender??

[UptownPhilly]

Maybe not...How much will Diop likely command next season?

[freshie2]

And Freshie- I agree, a low post scorer would be better than a shooter.

My concern is that Biedrins and Okafor are neither, and getting a shooter (lets say Jamison as a stopgap) is an easier acquisition than a low post scorer (like Brand or Gasol.)

If we go for Biendrins he will be a good player, but not a complementary piece next to Sam. I just don't see what kind of offense you can run that has two bigs we both can't post up or consistantly hit the jumper.

Agree that Biedrens and Okafor are not solid low post presences on offense, but I do think they are still an upgrade over the current PF situation. Not crazy about Jamison as a stop gap...if they are going after a PF who is more of a SF, then I'd prefer Josh Smith d/t age/upside. My preference would be neither Jamison nor Smith, and get a more 'traditional' big man. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'd be shocked if the Sixers 4/5 rotation is the same next season, it's just a matter of who the new guy is.

[dbodner]

Also... dabods, where did you get the averages you mentioned above?

I meant to say "last year". It was used as proof that he doesn't have to "regain his form", he already has. His #'s are only down this year because he's been phased out of memphis' system, for whatever idiotic reason.

what's different about Philly than what Memphis currently has? Garnett is going to be the MVP this year in Boston mostly because he has Allen and Pierce playing next to him. If Gasol comes here, we don't have two superstars to vault us to the top and probably won't have any cap space or picks if we trade for him.

How can you answer that without knowing what we give up for him? Couldn't you say the same thing about Amare? The reason I pointed out the Suns 29-53 season is because it shows that even while Amare's having a great season and dominating down low, you need more. If we don't have enough talent, we don't have enough talent, and that doesn't matter if we have Amare or Gasol. I said this before, and I'll say it again, neither of them make us instant contenders, and both are simply step 1 in the road back to contention. I just think Gasol's a better fit next to Dalembert, Iguodala and Young.

[The Guilty Party]

Dabods... If we can agree that both Amare and Gasol aren't "the" answer to this team but certainly one step in the right direction... do you believe tradind our cap space, draft picks, and maybe a couple of young players is the right move???

Since it's going to take more than 1 player to get this team back to a level where it can win on a nightly basis, do you believe we are better using that cap space on someone else and keeping our picks/young players??