Having Korver makes the Jazz a significantly better team.

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #81 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:47 am

Well, if you had any comprehension skills you'd see I also called Arroyo stupid, i just didn't spell it for you... so... just for you...

Arroyo was just as stupid as Gira was and they both got traded because of it. (which is true)

There... you happy now???

stevebozell · Post #82 » by **stevebozell** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 4:53 am

Bayamon, you have said at points that Gira "sucks and has always sucked", which is not true. In reading your latest rant against red, you have contradicted yourself many times. Tell me this, are you ok with Sloan running guys out of town who "take shots out of the offense"? Because Korver, as an example, does that regularly. Would you be ok if Sloan destroyed his rep and shipped him out of town? According to your last rant you would. I wouldnt be, I really like Korver, even if he takes a free shot out of the offense once in a while(even at his current really low percentage). But I also didnt care if Gira did it once in a while. You need to be consistent in your bashing.

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #83 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 5:06 am

No, because Gira had 4 years of never doing it. If it was one "bad" shot a game, one can live with that. But it wasn't that. It was stupid TOs, constantly passing up OPEN shots. He just didn't get it. As for Arroyo, he was here 1 year (with very low expectations, in which he was one of the high note on an amazing 42 win season) and less than half a season later he was gone. Gira was 4 years, and it was the same **** ALL THOSE YEARS.

As for Korver, you can see his shots are basically all within what we're trying to do. You rarely see him force a shot/play by himself as Gira did... CONSTANTLY. You see that's the problem. Not that he did those things, but how he did them constantly. That's why he was stupid, and that's why he sucked.

Dude, if you're 4 years in your job, and you can't get what is asked of you, by your boss, manager, etc. And CONSTANTLY do things wrong, then you either need to look for another profesion, or you're really stupid. Maybe Gira can look into a career for modeling.

stevebozell · Post #84 » by **stevebozell** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 5:11 am

Gira got YANKED when he did what Korver did, and then lambasted in the media by his coach for doing it! And it started at the beginning of his first full season, not after 4. Thats going to mess with ANYONES confidence, no matter who it is, and is going to cause erratic play. Your excuse for Sloan doing what he did was Gira not doing what he was told. Do you think Korver was told to jack up shots out of the offense with more than half the shot-clock remaining? I can guarantee he wasnt. I guess you will be calling for this ridiculous treatment for Korver too sometime in the near future?

idajazz · Post #85 » by **idajazz** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 5:33 am

stevebozell wrote:Bayamon, you have said at points that Gira "sucks and has always sucked", which is not true. In reading your latest rant against red, you have contradicted yourself many times. Tell me this, are you ok with Sloan running guys out of town who "take shots out of the offense"? Because Korver, as an example, does that regularly. Would you be ok if Sloan destroyed his rep and shipped him out of town? According to your last rant you would. I wouldnt be, I really like Korver, even if he takes a free shot out of the offense once in a while(even at his current really low percentage). But I also didnt care if Gira did it once in a while. You need to be consistent in your bashing.

I have to call bullcrap on that. I think Korver is taking good shots, he is just clanking them. I don't think slown minds that. Chuck was a walking turnover. Korver passes when it isn't there and doesn't travel every other time he touches the ball

ColdBlue · Post #86 » by **ColdBlue** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 7:17 am

stevebozell wrote:Gira got YANKED when he did what Korver did, and then lambasted in the media by his coach for doing it! And it started at the beginning of his first full season, not after 4. Thats going to mess with ANYONES confidence, no matter who it is, and is going to cause erratic play. Your excuse for Sloan doing what he did was Gira not doing what he was told. Do you think Korver was told to jack up shots out of the offense with more than half the shot-clock remaining? I can guarantee he wasnt. I guess you will be calling for this ridiculous treatment for Korver too sometime in the near future?

I have a feeling Sloan is going to do the same thing with Korver. Notice he benched him in favor of CJ in the 2nd?

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #87 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 2:14 pm

ColdBlue wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I have a feeling Sloan is going to do the same thing with Korver. Notice he benched him in favor of CJ in the 2nd?

WOW... just WOW!!!

idajazz · Post #88 » by **idajazz** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 6:04 pm

I have very little good to say about Sloan,

But I got to agree with baya.
wow.

ColdBlue · Post #89 » by **ColdBlue** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 7:05 pm

^ I don't get it. What is so 'wow' about my observation?

You have to admit, Korver's quick shot is the anti-Sloan. If one of these shots leads to a fast break the other way, Sloan is going to have a temper tantrum and yell 'Hart!'. :wink:

idajazz · Post #90 » by **idajazz** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 8:44 pm

Well because it looks to me like Sloan likes korvers hustle, and the fact that he ISN"T taking shots out of the offense.
He is just missing them. I think once he is settled in they will start dropping.

Jazzfan Bayamon · Post #91 » by **Jazzfan Bayamon** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:09 pm

ColdBlue wrote:^ I don't get it. What is so 'wow' about my observation?

You have to admit, Korver's quick shot is the anti-Sloan. If one of these shots leads to a fast break the other way, Sloan is going to have a temper tantrum and yell 'Hart!'.

WOW

You said put CJ in as a sign Sloan doesn't like Korver??? I don't know what's worse, that you wrote that, or that you might actually believe it. Korver wasn't hitting, and was struggling on D against Crawford. Sloan adjusted, and also used it as an opportunity to give CJ some well earned minutes that he hasn't been able to get with Korver now on the team.

And the best part is that Korver ISN'T WHINING ABOUT THAT!!!

He knows his job is to come in, and produce while being in. He ain't "demanding" minutes, hell, he even talked with CJ about that, how they be pulling for eachother etc. And guess what, our TEAM is MUCH better now, because with the cancer that was Giricek, our bench was allways down and serious. Now you see them up and rallying our guys, and their production has gone way up since **** was traded. (which BTW, is the whole point of this thread). If you and your little group here care so much about Gira, then feel free to move to the Philadelphia 76ers board, which I believe is no.26 (just replace the .php?=33 with .php?=26 and presto!).

red4hf · Post #92 » by **red4hf** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:10 pm

Korver takes some shots which are clearly within the offense, he also takes a lot of shots which are not......

He has attempted a bunch of threes on the fast break when the Jazz have a clear advantage, that's not Jazz basketball, and if Giri had done that he would have been murdered by Sloan.

Second, when Gira was brought to the Jazz he was brought AS A SHOOTER!!!!

No, he was brought in as someone capable of playing the 2...... The year before Calbert Cheaney was the Jazz starting 2, and he couldn't shoot and yet he was a pretty effective player........ Giri was a 2 guard who COULD shoot, but was one whose main strenght was slashing........

If we wanted a slasher, we'd kept DeShawn, who was actually having a preatty good season that year.

True, but Giri was a MUCH better outside shooter than Deshawn, but it doesn't mean that's what you make him do all the time......

Harp always plays D. And what you say about yelling and ****, that's what you can call TEAM DEFENSE.

No, that's not why they are yellingat him, they are yelling at him because he doesn't cover his man, he cheats constantly, leaving his man wide open for jump shots. They are yelling at him because he ISN'T doing what he's supposed to be.........

That's how TEAM defense works. Hapring plays, hard, does what is asked of him, and doesn't whine and bitch about it.

Umm, that's because the only thing he's asked to do is score, who exactly would complain about that?

Hell, let's take Brewer for example. Brewer has made a fair share of mid-range jump shots this season (a good surprise), but you can't expect him to be a shooter, right?

No, I expect him to get better at shooting.......

So how come Brewer CAN actually spot up and shoot (and make) those shots and Gira was "harmed" because he as a slasher (like Brewer) was told to DO THE FREAKING SAME THING!?!?!?!?

What? The vast majority of Brewer's points come on drives not jump shots....... Don't even try that nonsense with me...... So, he isn't asked to do the same thing as Giri.......

And I repeat again, if Harpring is such a team oriented player and does all the things that are supposed to make the team great, and Giri doesn't, why is Giri's +/- equal (and some seasons much better) than Harpring's? And again, if Giri sucked so much, why did we give him a 4 year extention?

How come none of you can answer this question.......

kebutah · Post #93 » by **kebutah** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:35 pm

Who knows what the front office was thinking that summer. They also gave Arroyo a four year extension.

red4hf · Post #94 » by **red4hf** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 10:00 pm

kebutah wrote:Who knows what the front office was thinking that summer. They also gave Arroyo a four year extension.

That doesn't answer the Harpring and Giri +/- differential.......

Post #95 » by **bleu** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 10:12 pm

I say we pick up KK's bro's too.

stevebozell · Post #96 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:03 am

idajazz wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I have to call bullcrap on that. I think Korver is taking good shots, he is just clanking them.

Then I will have to call bull crap on you actually watching the games. I have no problem with the shots he takes, but they are the same ones Gira took when he got yanked, except Gira was on fire when he first got here, and Korver is clanking them.

ColdBlue · Post #97 » by **ColdBlue** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:22 am

Jazzfan Bayamon wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

WOW

You said put CJ in as a sign Sloan doesn't like Korver??? I don't know what's worse, that you wrote that, or that you might actually believe it. Korver wasn't hitting, and was struggling on D against Crawford. Sloan adjusted, and also used it as an opportunity to give CJ some well earned minutes that he hasn't been able to get with Korver now on the team.

And the best part is that Korver ISN'T WHINING ABOUT THAT!!!

He knows his job is to come in, and produce while being in. He ain't "demanding" minutes, hell, he even talked with CJ about that, how they be pulling for eachother etc. And guess what, our TEAM is MUCH better now, because with the cancer that was Giricek, our bench was allways down and serious. Now you see them up and rallying our guys, and their production has gone way up since **** was traded. (which BTW, is the whole point of this thread). If you and your little group here care so much about Gira, then feel free to move to the Philadelphia 76ers board, which I believe is no.26 (just replace the .php?=33 with .php?=26 and presto!).

Sloan subbing CJ looked more like a yank.

What is hard to believe is that you actually think Korver agrees with the decision to sit after playing for 2 minutes. Gobble less PR. You sound like the broken record that players give the media.

The Sheik · Post #98 » by **The Sheik** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:34 am

ColdBlue wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Sloan subbing CJ looked more like a yank.

What is hard to believe is that you actually think Korver agrees with the decision to sit after playing for 2 minutes. Gobble less PR. You sound like the broken record that players give the media.

I actually agree that he was just cold and not producing on the D end. That was probably one of the first times he didnt contribute on either end, and he really couldnt play either Jefferies or Crawford.

Post #99 » by **loserX** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:36 am

red4hf wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

That doesn't answer the Harpring and Giri +/- differential.......

Believe me, even if you are right (and I'm not saying you aren't) +/- is a crap statistic. Greg Ostertag frequently had better +/- than John Stockton.

Post #100 » by **loserX** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:37 am

ColdBlue wrote:Sloan subbing CJ looked more like a yank.

What is hard to believe is that you actually think Korver agrees with the decision to sit after playing for 2 minutes. Gobble less PR. You sound like the broken record that players give the media.

Now I'm lost. You guys have been mad that Sloan doesn't treat Korver the same as he did Giricek...now you're mad that he does?