SAC/HOU/DEN

[pillwenney]

This trade still needs a few kinks in it, but I think the idea could be really solid for every team involved.

Houston trades
Shane Battier
Steve Francis
Kirk Snyder
Bonzi Wells (would be waived and returned)
08 1st

Houston gets
Ron Artest
Kenny Thomas

Alston\Brooks\James
McGrady\Head
Artest\Wells\Novak
Scola\Thomas\Hayes
Yao\Mutombo\Landry

Before I go into why Houston would do this, I'd like to point out that Bonzi is purely in there as salary filler. That's the main hitch in this deal, because Bonzi couldn't re-join the team for a month, or something like that IIRC. Hayes can't be the filler because he's BYC, and for some reason it also didn't work when the filler was Novak/Landry (although the math indicates it should have). But the good news would be that if the all-star break counts into that month, it's really not that big of a deal. But still, I do realize that this would be a problem with the deal. It would also work if SAR were subbed in for Kenny, but as a Kings fan, I would really rather move Kenny.

Ok, now as for why Houston does it:
Ron would really love playing in Houston. He would be just the thrust of energy that they need there, and IMO, could potentially make them serious contenders. He would be in a winning situation and would be playing under Rick, who has claimed to be the best coach he's ever had. This also really reduces the risk that Ron would bring with him, because Rick is historically good at dealing with questionable characters, and Ron would be no exception (as has been proven in the past). This would be expensive for Houston in the long run, but it would also probably make them real contenders IMO.

Denver trades
Najera
08 1st

Denver gets
Shane Battier

Iverson\Carter\Atkins
Battier\Smith\Wafer
Anthony\Kleiza\Diawara
Nene\Martin
Camby\Hunter

Denver does this to continue to help them win now. Battier would be a perfect addition to their starting lineup. He would spread the floor and defend the best perimeter player nightly.

Kings trade
Artest
Thomas

Kings get
Wells (waived and returned)
Snyder
Francis
Najera
08 1st from Houston
08 1st from Denver

Bibby\Udrih\Francis
Martin\Douby\Snyder
Salmons\Garcia\D. Jones
Moore\Najera\SAR
Miller\Hawes\J. Williams

The Kings potentially get straight expirings for Artest/Thomas (assuming that we wouldn't extend a qualifying offer to Snyder and that after getting no PT, that Francis would opt out) and 2 1st rounders.

[Bac2Basics]

I think if Houston were to take on Kenny Thomas, they'd probably insist on keeping their 1st, but if Sacramento's getting Denver's pick, I think that's something that Petrie could live with.

[sackings916]

Its an upgrade for Denver but I think they're looking to get something better than Battier. And with Nene's health they'd be thin up front losing Najera.

[loserX]

^Agreed...KT is a huge negative, that gets compounded when the Rockets have to shell out for Artest next offseason and thereby plow into the luxury tax. If the Rockets are giving up Battier, they won't sweeten it further with a pick.

[pillwenney]

Part of my thinking (that I forgot to mention) was that Kenny played much better under Adelman, but I see where you guys are coming from. What if he were replaced with SAR?

[yunggunz]

duuuuuude........Gasol just was traded for 2 picks. You want 2 picks and dump a bad contract for a guy ipting out at the end of the season? no way mang.

[pillwenney]

duuuuuude........Gasol just was traded for 2 picks. You want 2 picks and dump a bad contract for a guy ipting out at the end of the season? no way mang.

That's not how this works. If anything the value other stars have has increased now, because there is greater competition. If Houston wants to compete any time soon, the way I see it, they might have to bit the bullet here. The same goes for Denver, to a lesser degree.

[GMF]

I'd be willing to do the trade without the first. I don't think replacing Kenny with Shareef really makes it worth the first.

[Smills91]

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That's not how this works. If anything the value other stars have has increased now, because there is greater competition. If Houston wants to compete any time soon, the way I see it, they might have to bit the bullet here. The same goes for Denver, to a lesser degree.

EXACTLY, it's SIMPLE economic principles at work here.

The SUPPLY of stars just dropped by 1. Therefore the Demand is increased. Gasol moving has upped the ante for players like Kidd, Artest, Bibby getting moved not just because of the supply/demand curve and how the market works, but also other teams will want to keep up with the proverbial 'jones' now. Teams like the Rockets/Jazz/Nuggets/Mavs are especially looking at that move as jumping the lakers from the 3rd tiered playoff teams to the 2nd tier and perhaps close to the 1st tier.

IMO I think I think Dallas has to pay MORE now for Kidd, because they WANT him more than they did before with the new news of Gasol in LA. I think the Nuggets now want to shut down Kobe through Artest in order to compete with them and that INCREASES Ron's value to a team like the Nuggets and makes them more willing to meet Petrie's demands in an Artest deal, namely taking on KT.

[RoxFan08]

Houston MIGHT be willing to part with Battier for half a season of Artest. Not a chance they take KT. First or no first.

Carl Landry>>>KT

He'd be our 4th string PF, being paid 7.5 million a year for 2 more after this one. Again, not a chance.

[yunggunz]

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EXACTLY, it's SIMPLE economic principles at work here.

The SUPPLY of stars just dropped by 1. Therefore the Demand is increased. Gasol moving has upped the ante for players like Kidd, Artest, Bibby getting moved not just because of the supply/demand curve and how the market works, but also other teams will want to keep up with the proverbial 'jones' now. Teams like the Rockets/Jazz/Nuggets/Mavs are especially looking at that move as jumping the lakers from the 3rd tiered playoff teams to the 2nd tier and perhaps close to the 1st tier.

IMO I think I think Dallas has to pay MORE now for Kidd, because they WANT him more than they did before with the new news of Gasol in LA. I think the Nuggets now want to shut down Kobe through Artest in order to compete with them and that INCREASES Ron's value to a team like the Nuggets and makes them more willing to meet Petrie's demands in an Artest deal, namely taking on KT.

LMAO........relating your basic economic principles to the NBA trade market is laughable. Its not like there is a limited number of Jason Kidd's out there, and once one Jason Kidd goes off the market, the price for the remaining Jason Kidd goes up. And its not like when VC or Baron Davis were given away for free they positively effected the trade value of other players.

Look, other teams in the league had an opportunity to put a better package together for Pau. The didnt. Artest has less value than Pau. Your not getting more for Artest than LA got for Pau. Dont try to skew it with your highschool econ lessons.

[Smills91]

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LMAO........relating your basic economic principles to the NBA trade market is laughable. Its not like there is a limited number of Jason Kidd's out there, and once one Jason Kidd goes off the market, the price for the remaining Jason Kidd goes up. And its not like when VC or Baron Davis were given away for free they positively effected the trade value of other players.

Look, other teams in the league had an opportunity to put a better package together for Pau. The didnt. Artest has less value than Pau. Your not getting more for Artest than LA got for Pau. Dont try to skew it with your highschool econ lessons.

LMAO at how uneducated you are. Economic Principles exist in EVERY MARKET. There a relative values placed on players...there are supply and demands. If you can't acknowledge this then there's no point even retorting back with you any further. I'll just let it go, but the fact is, Gasol moving increases the value of other stars, like I CLEARLY explained.

[pillwenney]

Houston MIGHT be willing to part with Battier for half a season of Artest. Not a chance they take KT. First or no first.

Carl Landry>>>KT

He'd be our 4th string PF, being paid 7.5 million a year for 2 more after this one. Again, not a chance.

It's not half a season. If it were I would totally agree with you. But Ron would love playing in Houston, and I would put good money on him re-signing.

[yunggunz]

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LMAO at how uneducated you are. Economic Principles exist in EVERY MARKET. There a relative values placed on players...there are supply and demands. If you can't acknowledge this then there's no point even retorting back with you any further. I'll just let it go, but the fact is, Gasol moving increases the value of other stars, like I CLEARLY explained.

LOL, Im far from being an economist, but i have a bit of an idea about economics. People can feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but I think the typical supply and demand schedule you are referring to is based on a free market model. Unfortunately, the trade market is a bartering system, not a free market with buyers and sellers. And NBA franchises dont operate in the same confines as a corporation......many teams arent out to maximize profits (and profit maximization is the entire purpose of supply and demand theory). I also know that the supply and demand scale depends greatly on the elasticity of a product. To my knowledge, there has not been a study to determine the elasticity of Pau Gasol, Ron Artest, or Jason Kidd for that matter. Your typical supply and demand curve (with price rising as demand increases or supply falls) is also made to represent a good, not a service. Basketball players are not manufacturable, nor are they a good. This creates a diseconomy of scale. You said that "economic principles exist in every market".....which is true, but the principles change depending on the market. For instance, the labor market has a down sloping supply curve. Shal we continue?

[el loco]

-= original quote snipped =-

EXACTLY, it's SIMPLE economic principles at work here.

The SUPPLY of stars just dropped by 1. Therefore the Demand is increased. Gasol moving has upped the ante for players like Kidd, Artest, Bibby getting moved not just because of the supply/demand curve and how the market works, but also other teams will want to keep up with the proverbial 'jones' now. Teams like the Rockets/Jazz/Nuggets/Mavs are especially looking at that move as jumping the lakers from the 3rd tiered playoff teams to the 2nd tier and perhaps close to the 1st tier.

IMO I think I think Dallas has to pay MORE now for Kidd, because they WANT him more than they did before with the new news of Gasol in LA. I think the Nuggets now want to shut down Kobe through Artest in order to compete with them and that INCREASES Ron's value to a team like the Nuggets and makes them more willing to meet Petrie's demands in an Artest deal, namely taking on KT.

A lot of that is true, but you also have to factor in that teams that are on the outside looking in at the playoffs will want to dump salaries to free up cap space, and in doing so they will want draft picks and young players in return. I guess it is all in how you want to look at it.

[Smills91]

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A lot of that is true, but you also have to factor in that teams that are on the outside looking in at the playoffs will want to dump salaries to free up cap space, and in doing so they will want draft picks and young players in return. I guess it is all in how you want to look at it.

Those teams aren't looking at acquiring an Artest though.

[pillwenney]

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A lot of that is true, but you also have to factor in that teams that are on the outside looking in at the playoffs will want to dump salaries to free up cap space, and in doing so they will want draft picks and young players in return. I guess it is all in how you want to look at it.

Are you saying that Houston would want to rebuild?

[Mr. E]

It's not half a season. If it were I would totally agree with you. But Ron would love playing in Houston, and I would put good money on him re-signing.

Then how much of our cap space would be devoted to Yao, McGrady and Artest? I don't see the Rockets having a chance at resigning the guy in the offseason with their current salary commitments.

[pillwenney]

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Then how much of our cap space would be devoted to Yao, McGrady and Artest? I don't see the Rockets having a chance at resigning the guy in the offseason with their current salary commitments.

Not even if you were contending? I mean you'd hope that any team would be willing to spend some money to contend. Ron wouldn't only help out with his great play on both sides of the ball, but he would be the emotional leader that Houston has lacked. That's what happened when Ron and Rick were together in Sac.

[RoxFan08]

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Not even if you were contending? I mean you'd hope that any team would be willing to spend some money to contend. Ron wouldn't only help out with his great play on both sides of the ball, but he would be the emotional leader that Houston has lacked. That's what happened when Ron and Rick were together in Sac.

I'd love for Artest to do that. I really wish there was some sort of signing window allowed in basketball like in baseball for trades. But I don't think Houston can screw themselves with KT without being absolutely sure Artest stays on.