Having Korver makes the Jazz a significantly better team.

stevebozell · Post #101 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:54 am

I wasnt mad he didnt treat him the same, I only used it as proof that Sloan had a personal grudge against Gira, it had nothing to do with this garbage that some of the homers keep regurgitating.

stevebozell · Post #102 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 1:55 am

By the way, 2 quick shots tonight by Korver that were AWESOME.

Post #103 » by **bleu** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 2:25 am

Wow. Korver had 8 in the first half!

sodapop · Post #104 » by **sodapop** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 3:38 am

hahaha

The Sloan haters have figured it out. Gordie, Phil, Sloan, Miller and O'Conner after giving Giricek a four year contract, set out to discredit him in a planned conspiracy that spanned several years, so they could dump a future draft pick.

Since Giricek played for Memphis, and they know how well he plays, we could of traded him for Gashol. Dumb front office.

stevebozell · Post #105 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 4:17 am

sodapop wrote:hahaha

Gordie, Phil, Sloan, Miller and O'Conner after giving Giricek a four year contract, set out to discredit him in a planned conspiracy that spanned several years, so they could dump a future draft pick.

So why would they give a guy, who according to you was as bad as he played lately his entire career, a 4 year extension?? Dumb front office.

sodapop · Post #106 » by **sodapop** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 4:45 am

It was dumb unless he duped them in his 25 games here. Believe it or not some players play better in their contract year. I've said before that they might of been better off keeping Deshawn. Giricek never became the player they thought he would, due to his refusal to follow the coaches.

The proof of his demise with the coaches and front office has been posted here. Trying to discredit Sloan for what you perceive as unfair treatment should be spread out among all the coaches and front office staff if your perceptions are true.

In order for them to be true you would need to know better than them, you would need full access to to the showers, locker room, practices, and know their playbook better than the coaches.

Your using a straw dog type argument to try to move the discussion away from Giriceks inability to do what is asked, into a Sloan discussion. You can't discuss one point/player (Giricek), because you know you'll lose, so you make general statements about Sloan that are hard to disprove (the great Sloan conspiracy theory).

If you look at Ostertags early contract year you will find that he played great. Then Sloan ruined him.

stevebozell · Post #107 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 5:10 am

sodapop wrote:Giricek never became the player they thought he would

What does that say about the coaches and their player development? Not much.

sodapop · Post #108 » by **sodapop** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 5:13 am

Like Ostertag?

stevebozell · Post #109 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 6:02 am

Like Ostertag? Are you using him in FAVOR of your argument? Wow.

red4hf · Post #110 » by **red4hf** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 12:36 pm

loserX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Believe me, even if you are right (and I'm not saying you aren't) +/- is a crap statistic. Greg Ostertag frequently had better +/- than John Stockton.

I'm sorry that's a crap argument...... John Stockton was the most important player on the floor for the Jazz when he played, Ostertag was a bit player, you can't compare them....... Both Harpring and Giri are not stars of the team but simply contributing players, therefore you CAN actually compare their contributions out there on the floor.......

Giricek never became the player they thought he would, due to his refusal to follow the coaches.

Did he play any differently his first season before he signed the extention, than he did the next one?

NO...... And there goes that argument...... He played exactly the same, so he didn't fool anyone...... And wasn't trying to fool anyone......

The proof of his demise with the coaches and front office has been posted here.

What "proof"? Comments from Jerry Sloan? Oh, yes those are surely objective...... Comments from Larry Miller? Oh yes, he's surely going to back up Giri in a feud with Sloan, because he always takes the player's side against Jerry.......

If you look at Ostertags early contract year you will find that he played great. Then Sloan ruined him.

He played "great"? I think you need to look up the definition of that word......

Fido · Post #111 » by **Fido** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 12:54 pm

This thread is STILL going? :lol:

red4hf · Post #112 » by **red4hf** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 2:11 pm

Fido wrote:This thread is STILL going?

Hey it's an interesting discussion, nothing wrong with a little argument....... Especially when the team is otherwise doing fine......

sodapop · Post #113 » by **sodapop** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 2:20 pm

stevebozell wrote:What does that say about the coaches and their player development? Not much.

stevebozell wrote:Like Ostertag? Are you using him in FAVOR of your argument? Wow.

It was a sarcastic remark about player development. You can teach a player how to run the plays, but if he refuses there is not much else to do but get rid of him. It has nothing to do with development and everything to do with player attitude.

red4hf wrote: He played "great"? I think you need to look up the definition of that word......

The Jazz gave him a large contract that year based on his play and improvement. They thought he would keep improving. Many teams over pay players on the premise that they will continue improving.

red4hf wrote:Did he play any differently his first season before he signed the extension, than he did the next one? NO...... And there goes that argument...... He played exactly the same, so he didn't fool anyone...... And wasn't trying to fool anyone......

It's your opinion that he played the same. You would have to ask the coaches if he did in the 25 games he played here. My best guess would be he did not, or that he showed a willingness to change and run the plays.

You don't believe that many players play better in a contract year?

red4hf wrote:What "proof"? Comments from Jerry Sloan? Oh, yes those are surely objective...... Comments from Larry Miller? Oh yes, he's surely going to back up Giri in a feud with Sloan, because he always takes the player's side against Jerry.......

If you read the article again you'll find that Larry Miller was quoting Phil another coach. You also forgot Gordie and Kevin O'Conner the GM. It was a big conspiracy by the front office, right? Some of the Sloan haters are so obsessed that it's comical.

Does having Korver make the Jazz a significantly better team? I think so. It's to bad we can't have a discussion about his contributions to the team without the white noise. With 4 blocks and 4 assists last night he has impressed me. I knew he was a good shooter, but surprised by his all around game.

red4hf · Post #114 » by **red4hf** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 5:59 pm

The Jazz gave him a large contract that year based on his play and improvement.

That doesn't mean he played "great"....... The Jazz overpaid for a big man, just like a bunch of other teams.......

It's your opinion that he played the same. You would have to ask the coaches if he did in the 25 games he played here. My best guess would be he did not, or that he showed a willingness to change and run the plays.

I watched him those 25 games, he did exactly what he has tried to do since, DRIVE THE BALL...... That's why those 25 games he averaged the highest amount of free throws per minute of his career...... And he only made 14 threes in those games...... And then we decided to make him a spot up shooter, which is something he wasn't.......

You don't believe that many players play better in a contract year?

Of course they do...... My point is we forced Giri to play DIFFIRENTLY after giving him that contract....... Instead of focusing on his strenght, we tried to make him a spot up shooter and that's the reason for his decline......

If you read the article again you'll find that Larry Miller was quoting Phil another coach.

Another shocker.......

You also forgot Gordie and Kevin O'Conner the GM. It was a big conspiracy by the front office, right?

What does that have to do with it? They are the ones who traded for him, obviously they saw something in him they liked, so all the comments that Giri was "crap" are nonsense......

Does having Korver make the Jazz a significantly better team? I think so.

I agree........ I think Korver has been a great addition to the Jazz...... And I haven't said anything different in this thread.......

I knew he was a good shooter, but surprised by his all around game.

I actually said the same thing in the "Grade the Jzzz thread", Korver is a much better defender than advertised........

Post #115 » by **loserX** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 6:54 pm

red4hf wrote:I'm sorry that's a crap argument...... John Stockton was the most important player on the floor for the Jazz when he played, Ostertag was a bit player, you can't compare them....... Both Harpring and Giri are not stars of the team but simply contributing players, therefore you CAN actually compare their contributions out there on the floor.......

Yes, you can. But not using the +/-, which is a poor statistic with limited application. That's all I meant.

red4hf · Post #116 » by **red4hf** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 9:19 pm

loserX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yes, you can. But not using the +/-, which is a poor statistic with limited application. That's all I meant.

I would say +/- isn't perfect, but it's certainly one of things you would use....... Otherwise, what do you have? Jerry Sloan's comments? Yeah, that's not going to cut it........

ColdBlue · Post #117 » by **ColdBlue** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 10:48 pm

loserX wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Now I'm lost. You guys have been mad that Sloan doesn't treat Korver the same as he did Giricek...now you're mad that he does?

Actually, I think we all like how Sloan has given Korver the green light, and that he should have done the same with Giri.

I'm just paranoid that Sloan is going to start yanking Korver.

Pai Gow · Post #118 » by **Pai Gow** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 10:59 pm

ColdBlue wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Actually, I think we all like how Sloan has given Korver the green light, and that he should have done the same with Giri.

I'm just paranoid that Sloan is going to start yanking Korver.

The problem is that Gordan has never, ever, in his career been the shooter Korver is and therefore did not earn any sort of a green light by any team. And its not like just Sloan said no green light, thats been the case everywhere he has been. Korver is just an infinitely better TEAM player than Gordan and its something Red just doesn't understand. IF Gordan is so great like you guys are saying WHY is he not playing in Philly? Rebuilding is one thing and getting Thad minutes is a good thing, but honestly, they're 2 and half games behind the 8th seed in the East, I just can't see them NOT trying to make it.

stevebozell · Post #119 » by **stevebozell** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 11:32 pm

Gira led the league in 3-point shooting in the playoffs, so while he may not be known as a sharp shooter like Korver is, he isnt bad enough that he should get yanked for taking a few. That argument is a joke.

Pai Gow · Post #120 » by **Pai Gow** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 12:08 am

stevebozell wrote:Gira led the league in 3-point shooting in the playoffs, so while he may not be known as a sharp shooter like Korver is, he isnt bad enough that he should get yanked for taking a few. That argument is a joke.

No its not a joke. Korver is a proven shooter who has earned a green light, Giri is not, it's pretty simple, just cause Gordan got hot from the 3-point line in the playoffs doesn't make him a shooter ESPECIALLY considering that he only shot 42% overall for the playoffs, how do you explain that for such a "good" shooter?