Realistic Trade With Memphis

[Licensed to Il]

Kyle Lowry, JC Navarro, and Brian Cardinal for Gadzuric, Bell, and Charlie V...

Hear me out! Don't stab a pencil in your eye just because someone suggested we aquire Brian Cardinal!

I get sick to my stomach when Royal Ivey starts at guard. I like his attitude and I love his hustle, but he is simply not a guy that should ever play more than garbage minutes. He has no feel for the offensive side of the game, can't shoot, and sees the floor terribly. I can't tell you how many times I have been watching a game this year, and things just fall apart when Mo is not on the floor (and let's just say Mo is not exactly a pure guard in his own right).

We NEED another guard or two that can set up teammates, sink some shots, and make things happen out on the floor. We need a guy with great vision and creativity, and maybe more than any of those things, we need a guard with toughness and moxie.

One guy that I have fallen in love with since I got league pass and suddenly had access to random NBA games is Kyle Lowry. I think that he has everything that we need in a backup point guard, and I think that Mo is a guy that can play some backup two guard... freeing up about 20 minutes a night for Lowry to show what he can do. Please don't comment if you haven't watched Lowry play, because he is the key to this deal. The kid is tough, the kid has great vision, the kid can set up teammates at key times, the kid gives great effort, and the kid has crazy handles. He even has above average athleticism hiding underneath his stocky frame (a la Baron Davis). His shot is not great by any means, but this kid is going to develop in to what everyone thought Jamal Tinsley would become (before he got fat and shot machine guns in to the Indiana night).

Navarro doesn't exactly fit what Larry K is trying to build (tough and heady defensive team) but he can shoot the lights out, space the floor, hit big shots, and life the productivity of your second unit.

Cardinal... well he sucks big time, and has one of the worst deals in the league. But he is a total effort guy who will throw his fleshy bald body all over the court, and he does have some range on his J. Unloading his contract would likely be a motivation for Memphis in a deal like this.

Why would the Griz do this deal? Well they obviously are trying to shake things up and build a high tempo running team around Rudy G and Mike Conley. The Gasol trade brought in somewhat of a local talent (Javaris C from Georgia Tech) and it doesn't seem that Jerry West holdover Kyle Lowry or Pau Gasol buddy Juan Carlos Navarro have any future with TERRIBLE GM Chris Wallace's current squad. Gadz can be a decent garbage man backup center on a running team with good point guards, Bell is a good backup combo guard who wants a change of scenery, and Charlie V would fit in with the scheme they appear to be instituting.

This deal would make us a much better team, without costing us anything long term. While I am somewhat shocked that I proposed a trade involving Brian Cardinal... Lowry and Navarro are two guys who are not in Memphis's long term plans that are surely available, and would really bolster our bench in big time ways.

[paulpressey25]

Unfortunately Santa Claus in Memphis has now left the building.....and no more gifts for other teams......I'd doubt they make any more moves.

Cardinal only has two more years left after this season at rates of $6.3mm and $6.75mm. Gadz meanwhile is owed $20 million still after this year. Bell will be owed another $14+ million. Too much money for Memphis to take on, since Gadz and Bell aren't starters nor are they young guys with potential.

The Grizz are all about gutting their payroll for sale....we'd have to give them an expiring and/or a #1 draft choice IMO.

[MickeyDavis]

Exactly, Memphis is all about clearing contractr not taking on more. And we have no expiring's to offer anyone.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Kyle Lowry, JC Navarro, and Brian Cardinal for Gadzuric, Bell, and Charlie V...

Hear me out! Don't stab a pencil in your eye just because someone suggested we aquire Brian Cardinal!

I get sick to my stomach when Royal Ivey starts at guard. I like his attitude and I love his hustle, but he is simply not a guy that should ever play more than garbage minutes. He has no feel for the offensive side of the game, can't shoot, and sees the floor terribly. I can't tell you how many times I have been watching a game this year, and things just fall apart when Mo is not on the floor (and let's just say Mo is not exactly a pure guard in his own right).

We NEED another guard or two that can set up teammates, sink some shots, and make things happen out on the floor. We need a guy with great vision and creativity, and maybe more than any of those things, we need a guard with toughness and moxie.

One guy that I have fallen in love with since I got league pass and suddenly had access to random NBA games is Kyle Lowry. I think that he has everything that we need in a backup point guard, and I think that Mo is a guy that can play some backup two guard... freeing up about 20 minutes a night for Lowry to show what he can do. Please don't comment if you haven't watched Lowry play, because he is the key to this deal. The kid is tough, the kid has great vision, the kid can set up teammates at key times, the kid gives great effort, and the kid has crazy handles. He even has above average athleticism hiding underneath his stocky frame (a la Baron Davis). His shot is not great by any means, but this kid is going to develop in to what everyone thought Jamal Tinsley would become (before he got fat and shot machine guns in to the Indiana night).

Navarro doesn't exactly fit what Larry K is trying to build (tough and heady defensive team) but he can shoot the lights out, space the floor, hit big shots, and life the productivity of your second unit.

Cardinal... well he sucks big time, and has one of the worst deals in the league. But he is a total effort guy who will throw his fleshy bald body all over the court, and he does have some range on his J. Unloading his contract would likely be a motivation for Memphis in a deal like this.

Why would the Griz do this deal? Well they obviously are trying to shake things up and build a high tempo running team around Rudy G and Mike Conley. The Gasol trade brought in somewhat of a local talent (Javaris C from Georgia Tech) and it doesn't seem that Jerry West holdover Kyle Lowry or Pau Gasol buddy Juan Carlos Navarro have any future with TERRIBLE GM Chris Wallace's current squad. Gadz can be a decent garbage man backup center on a running team with good point guards, Bell is a good backup combo guard who wants a change of scenery, and Charlie V would fit in with the scheme they appear to be instituting.

This deal would make us a much better team, without costing us anything long term. While I am somewhat shocked that I proposed a trade involving Brian Cardinal... Lowry and Navarro are two guys who are not in Memphis's long term plans that are surely available, and would really bolster our bench in big time ways.

Funny how he was our leading scorer the last two games

[Licensed to Il]

I agree that Memphis is highly unlikely to add any players with long term (more than 2 year) contract commitments. But Chris Wallace was the guy who traded for a max contract alcoholic Vin Baker, and did anyone really think that Memphis would give Gasol away for late first round draft picks and a backup point guard?

But I agree that this isn't a great deal for the Griz, or likely for the Bucks. All I am saying is that we need a guy to push Mo to play like he is capable of playing, as well some more firepower for our second unit.

And eastsidebucksfan... if you really think Royal Ivey is anything more than a hard nosed hustle guy with limited NBA skills, than I don't know what to tell you. Sure he led us in scoring the last two games, but watching him play is painful... I love his effort and heart, but watch the games man. The Bucks play ugly... and Royal is a huge reason...

[EastSideBucksFan]

I agree that Memphis is highly unlikely to add any players with long term (more than 2 year) contract commitments. But Chris Wallace was the guy who traded for a max contract alcoholic Vin Baker, and did anyone really think that Memphis would give Gasol away for late first round draft picks and a backup point guard?

But I agree that this isn't a great deal for the Griz, or likely for the Bucks. All I am saying is that we need a guy to push Mo to play like he is capable of playing, as well some more firepower for our second unit.

And eastsidebucksfan... if you really think Royal Ivey is anything more than a hard nosed hustle guy with limited NBA skills, than I don't know what to tell you. Sure he led us in scoring the last two games, but watching him play is painful... I love his effort and heart, but watch the games man. The Bucks play ugly... and Royal is a huge reason...

I do watch the games.....man

And I just don't agree with you


The Bucks have much bigger problems than Royal Ivey

[Licensed to Il]

I don't disagree that the Bucks have bigger problems than Royal Ivey. But the way I see it, we have an adequate starting lineup when everyone is healthy. But Coach K plays these lineups (Vosjuhl, CV, Simmons, Ivey, Bell) for 8 - 10 minutes at a time without any playmakers and without any scorers.

In a perfect world, you get your bench scoring from Bobby Simmons or Charlie V. But when Charlie V takes his one or two nights a week off, and Bobby's shot isn't falling... some REAL ugly ball takes place out there.

I don't know what you suggest... but when I see teams like Phoenix, Golden State, and Portland... I see entire lineups with guys that can shoot and slash and score. Why don't the Suns play Tucker? Why didn't the Blazers play Outlaw till this season? Because even one guy who can't shoot or make plays makes you that much easier to guard.

I don't want to argue with you over something so trivial. Perhaps Royal Ivey and Jake Voskuhl have become manifestations of my frustrations with the Bucks overall lack of chemistry and skilled play.

[Rockmaninoff]

I don't disagree that the Bucks have bigger problems than Royal Ivey. But the way I see it, we have an adequate starting lineup when everyone is healthy. But Coach K plays these lineups (Vosjuhl, CV, Simmons, Ivey, Bell) for 8 - 10 minutes at a time without any playmakers and without any scorers.

In a perfect world, you get your bench scoring from Bobby Simmons or Charlie V. But when Charlie V takes his one or two nights a week off, and Bobby's shot isn't falling... some REAL ugly ball takes place out there.

I don't know what you suggest... but when I see teams like Phoenix, Golden State, and Portland... I see entire lineups with guys that can shoot and slash and score. Why don't the Suns play Tucker? Why didn't the Blazers play Outlaw till this season? Because even one guy who can't shoot or make plays makes you that much easier to guard.

I don't want to argue with you over something so trivial. Perhaps Royal Ivey and Jake Voskuhl have become manifestations of my frustrations with the Bucks overall lack of chemistry and skilled play.

I'll agree on Jake Voskuhl, but Ivey has proven himself to be a pretty effective scorer, as well as a strong defender. I'm actually more upset that our starting point guard can't make fastbreak or post entry passes.

As far as your trade, I have to believe that Memphis sees Conley and Lowry as a very effective one/two punch. The floor general and the scoring combo guard is a nice complementary combination. My advice if you want a better team with better cap flexibility, is to find a deal that involves Williams, Villanueva, and Gadzuric.

[MickeyDavis]

I can't believe anyone would waste time debating Royal Freakin' Ivey. He's a scrub on a bad team. And that's all he is.

[Newz]

I can't believe anyone would waste time debating Royal Freakin' Ivey. He's a scrub on a bad team. And that's all he is.

[Licensed to Il]

Rockmony...

I agree that the trio of CV, Mo, and Gadz is our most likely way to change the makeup of our team without wholesale changes. Also.. I can't see Simmons as having any trade value until he starts playing with the bounce in his step and hunger that I haven't seen since he wore a Clipper Uni.

What do you think we could get for Mo, CV, and Gadz? I'll have to go waste an hour on trade checker thanks to you.

All I was saying about Ivey, is that if I was GM I would want a guy like that on my roster... but not as a regular in the rotation. I think of him as like a 3 iron in the golf bag. You could get by without it, but its nice to have in certain situations. Does that make sense? because I know absolutely nothing about golf and totally made that up.

I would be interested in what Ivey's "true shooting percentage" is. Meaning the percentage that he makes uncontested jumpers at. I think Hollinger tracks that... but ESPN makes folks pay for it.

Anyway... I can't help but feel that Mo or Redd have to be dealt, they simply don't compliment each other well, and this is something that I have been saying for years. It would be dangerous to trade Mmo and CV, because both could be very very good NBA players in other systems/roles. Gadzuric... lets just say I'm not so worried about him hurting us down the road.

[Licensed to Il]

A deal with Mo and CV for Collison and Earl Watson would not work capwise because of BYC complications, but it is real close and I'm sure that an extra scrub or two could be thrown in to make it workable under CBA rules.

I don't know what Seattle is trying to do, so I'm not sure what they are looking for in trades. But Mo is an upgrade over Ridnour or Watson, and CV can space the floor for Durrant and has that untapped potential that makes GMs giddy.

I think the Bucks would be giving up more talent in a Mo and CV for Collison and Watson deal. But Watson plays great on the ball defense, and Collison would mesh well with Bogut and Yi. Collison can score a little in the post, he is a great rebounder, and a very adequate defender. I think he is the kind of player that would flourish in the slower and more physical eastern conference.

CV and Mo for Watson and Collison... thoughts?

[raferfenix]

I'd like that trade a lot for the bucks, but I just don't see the grizzlies taking on gadzuric and bell. Maybe they take on one of them, but definitely not both.

CV woudl be a great fit for them though, as they are desperate for scoring and he has experience playing with Rudy Gay. what about a deal like this:

Bucks trade: CV, Gadz

Grizzlies trade: Warrick, Lowry, Cardinal


Harris has always had a thing for Warrick, and we definitely could use Lowry. Cardinal would ahve a ton more value here than gadz as well since he is a smart plaeyr who plays hard all the time.