Doug Collins Possibility?

raferfenix · Post #1 » by **raferfenix** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:15 am

I am very disturbed at the notion that we will promote Dave Babcock, as the current puppet GM we have has really worked out well. This team needs an experienced basketball mind to shake up the team and stand up to Kohl's meddling, and although I am far from a big Doug Collins fan, he does have a ton of experience and would lend a veneer of credibility that has been absent here since Karl left.

Could both Kohl and Collins have a change of heart and embrace a working relationship here, or is Babock's promotion a done deal?

positivetension · Post #2 » by **positivetension** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:24 am

Look on the bright side, he has his brother Rob to ask for expert advice!

Post #3 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 3:06 pm

I also am not thrilled about Babcock but it's not like Collins has a great track record running basketball operations.

raferfenix · Post #4 » by **raferfenix** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:38 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:I also am not thrilled about Babcock but it's not like Collins has a great track record running basketball operations.

He doesn't by any means, but at least he'd be a better GM than Herb Kohl, if only because he understands basketball.

Comet · Post #5 » by **Comet** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:14 pm

Stay away from both of them. I'm done watching promotions, Herb Kohl needs to open his damn checkbook and get a real person in here. Collins would be better than Kohl but he still isn't what we need.

aboveAverage · Post #6 » by **aboveAverage** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:16 pm

If the bucks are still around by the time I'm in my 30's and hopefully a billionaire, I'll buy them and make GAD and PP co-general managers.

Post #7 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:51 pm

You guys are assuming that Kohl would not meddle with Collins. He meddled with Nellie, Dunleavy, Karl, Grunfeld, Harris and every other employee he has down to the ushers at the BC.

Comet · Post #8 » by **Comet** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:17 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:You guys are assuming that Kohl would not meddle with Collins. He meddled with Nellie, Dunleavy, Karl, Grunfeld, Harris and every other employee he has down to the ushers at the BC.

True, but since Karl was fired all of our hirings have been promotions. Harris has done okay, but he was a promotion. For coaches, Porter, Stotts, and Krystkowiak were all promotions. When it comes to players, Kohl spends stupidly. When it comes to coaches and executives, Kohl doesn't spend at all.

Post #9 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:22 pm

Kohl gave Dunleavy the largest (at the time) coaching contract in NBA history. He made Karl the highest paid (at the time) coach in ANY team sport.

It's not that he hasn't spent money. He just goes in extremes.

Regardless, this thread is about Collins and there is nothing Collins has done to make me feel he would do a great job. Just because he's not a "promotion" and would be expensive doesn't mean he's any good.

Post #10 » by **paulpressey25** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:35 pm

I don't have faith in Collins either......but he's one possible candidate that Kohl would have to give power to.....Collins wouldn't take the job without power....and he's got enough name recognition to force that issue.

So, which is worse....Kohl with a puppet GM for another ten years......or letting Doug Collins go for three years?

Frankly Kohl's results are maybe only slightly better than letting a chimp put bananas on draft board names to pick players. And Collins with power might bring some order to that front office that currently by design has no strong voice as GM.

Post #11 » by **MickeyDavis** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:56 pm

I agree that Collins with power is better than another GM with no power.

But I'm not convinced Collins would really have power. Kohl could say all the right things but Kohl has been such a hands on owner since day 1 that I don't think he could help himself...

xTitan · Post #12 » by **xTitan** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 9:34 pm

The enitre culture of the organization needs to change and that won't happen until Kohl sells...its really that simple....Collins would be an f'ing nightmare.

europa · Post #13 » by **europa** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:45 am

Collins didn't want the team when it was arguably in better shape and had a brighter future than it does now. I'm not sure why he'd take the job now if he didn't want it then.

Post #14 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:51 am

europa wrote:Collins didn't want the team when it was arguably in better shape and had a brighter future than it does now. I'm not sure why he'd take the job now if he didn't want it then.

I'm not sure that's the case as you look back in hindsight.....

I think the 2005 team was more talented than the current team but the media didn't necessarily perceive that.....Even after all those big offseason moves, the Bucks still didn't get the ESPN guys to grant them playoff prediction until the Magloire trade was made....and then they were granted the "8th seed". We over-rated the 2005 team. Not the rest of the NBA.

But while I think the 2005 team was better at the time, it's quite possible the current team has more appeal to a new GM. Bogut and Yi appear to be a decent foundation and the other guys are all tradeable in the right deal.....you'll have a high lotto pick this summer and no expectations.....

europa · Post #15 » by **europa** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:55 am

I guess it depends on if you think this current team with its current core is going to get significantly better and ultimately contend. I don't believe that's the case. I think the team Collins turned down had more potential than this one. That's not a case of over-rating it either. The results in the standings were clearly in favor of that team - even taking its second-half fade into account.

Wise1 · Post #16 » by **Wise1** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:56 am

I don't think Kohl's going anywhere anytime soon so we'd better get use to "underlings" like the Babcocks and Krystkowiaks of the world. I can't see a successful and established basketball executive working under Kohl's current system of meddling and control.

It'll take a transcendent player to lift this franchise up and out of the doldrums. Leadership will have to come from the court. My oh my do we need a point guard that knows how to win. I'm firmly on the trade Redd for the rights to draft Derrick Rose bandwagon.

Post #17 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:01 am

europa wrote:I guess it depends on if you think this current team with its current core is going to get significantly better and ultimately contend. .

You can take this job with confidence and you don't have to believe in the current core.....think back to Jeff Van Gundy's commentary in the Laker game....they've got some things to work with, but you have to pick a philosophy and make some trades.....

The 2005 team won partly because they had two good veterans in Joe Smith and Kukoc......but those guys had very little left in the tank. This current team has players you can trade and get something back for that suits your philosophy.

This isn't a bad job to walk into to if the money is right and you have control......

Max Green · Post #18 » by **Max Green** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:04 am

I'd go after JVG before I would go after Collins. JVG has a proven track record with coaching big men, and Doug hasn't really won anywhere.

europa · Post #19 » by **europa** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:06 am

I don't see the appeal of this current team. It's an absolute mess. The depth is atrocious. There are major questions at PG, SF and PF. The majority of your top rotation players have a strong aversion to playing defense. There are few good role players and there are no strong veterans to lean on other than Redd.

The 2005 team had talented young players, including two top lottery picks (including the reigning No. 1 pick in the draft), one of the game's top SGs, the reigning Most Improved Player Award winner, a potential Sixth Man of the Year Award winner, solid depth, good role players and reliable veterans. I'm not saying that was a championship team but compared to this one it was a helluva lot closer to being one in my opinion.

Post #20 » by **paulpressey25** » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:14 am

europa wrote:The 2005 team had talented young players......... I'm not saying that was a championship team but compared to this one it was a helluva lot closer to being one in my opinion.

But in the end it only won 40 games......it underachieved with Stotts but only to a point IMO.....

A month ago I would have agreed with you.....but now we've got the Bogut factor to evaluate......

If you believe in Bogut's breakout month that he can be a 20/10 player next season and you believe that Yi can take a leap next season, you've then got two high potential young bigs......that could be a better core than what exists in places like Memphis, NYK, NJN, Wash, etc.....and they are coachable young bigs who play the right way unlike Curry/Randolph for example...

The veterans you can sign with the MLE or trade Redd/Mo/CV for....

And again add in say the #6 pick in the draft and you've got something to build on.......

The bigger impediments to a top tier guy taking this job is not the talent IMO, but the fact Kohl will meddle......

Look what Pritchard did in Portland in essentially two years.....with a much worse situation to deal with.