Are the Lakers going back to the Finals?

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Will the Addition of Gasol Take the Lakers back to the Finals?

Yes
109
36%
No
65
21%
All depends on Chemistry
66
22%
All depends on Chemistry
66
22%
 
Total votes: 306

UDRIH14
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Post#141 » by UDRIH14 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:33 am

[quote="Synciere"]
San Antonio: This is hard to judge, because everytime you think SA is out, the playoffs come around, and they find a way to at least force teams to beat them. Problem is, teams have found a way to beat them in the past. Additionally, they haven't won back-to-back titles yet, and Parker hasn't been able to shake off the injury bug this year. They have an excellent defensive scheme, but they also have three bodies to throw at Duncan in Bynum, Gasol, and Turiaf. The Laker's also have perimeter defenders in Kobe and Ariza who I think could slow down Ginobili and TP. Most importantly though, I don't see them having homecourt advantage all the way through the playoffs with the way they're playing. This is more of an advantage to the Lakers or whoever they're playing than it is a deterrent to the Spurs. They seem to play just as well on the road in the playoffs. So Bowen guards Kobe, Duncan guards Gasol, now who the hell guards Odom for the Spurs? Match-ups all over again. Bynum also had a good post game developing along with some post moves. I think he could score on Elson and Oberto... Lakers in 6.
quote]

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Post#142 » by Puertorique » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:54 am

LakersSquad wrote:I don't expect the Lakers to make it past the west finals this year. We have to get used to having all of these guys on the floor at once. I believe next year is our year. As far as a Boston Lakers finals. Boston are having their own problems with Orlando.


I agree with this post. The Lakers made a huge steal and I like this trade for them. I think next season they will be possibly the top team in the league. However when discussing this season you have to keep in mind that Bynum is not coming back for 6 mo's, Ariza is out for a short time, Pau has not played his first game yet. These guys are going to be factors for the Lakers to win.

The team needs time to gel together and learn how to play together. I do think that these guys all compliment each other well and Kobe and Lamar also. However the fact that the team has made a few in season moves and will need time to gel and learn how to play together is whats going to be key. Bynum will now go from #1 option in the post to #2 option in the post #3 on the team all around. Odom also has to get used to being the teams 4th option. Pau has to go from being #1 to #2 guy. Good thing for the Lakers is that I think all these players are capable of accepting their roles on this team.

The sooner that happens the better. I think this year is going to be the learning curve, next season title hunt for sure.
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Post#143 » by ShowtimeFan » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:02 am

that's cool with all the sour grape posts, yes, they have to play together, yes they have to mesh, yes Ariza and Bynum need to be back at full strength, but the last time I looked Parker was out indefinitely and KG is out with muscle pains, so only the future will tell...
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Post#144 » by Griever24 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:08 am

Definetly us Laker fans should not get ahead of ourselves, we have not seen this team play yet and it is going to take time to recover from injuries and Gel (not to mention Triangle is a complicated system takes time to learn, cant just pick it up in a few days)

if we dont make it to the Finals this year i can definetly see it happening next year when Gasol, ariza have a full off-season to get the trangle under their belt .. then if we come into next year determined and healthy then i can see us making the final's and perhaps even taking them .. but this year is to soon ..

not every team gel's as quick as the celtics did this past off-season
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Post#145 » by Triangle Theory » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:11 am

Griever24 wrote:(not to mention Triangle is a complicated system takes time to learn, cant just pick it up in a few days)
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Post#146 » by Puertorique » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:12 am

ShowtimeFan wrote:that's cool with all the sour grape posts, yes, they have to play together, yes they have to mesh, yes Ariza and Bynum need to be back at full strength, but the last time I looked Parker was out indefinitely and KG is out with muscle pains, so only the future will tell...


Dont take it to heart. This is a competitive league where players who have played together longer usually win the most. Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Spurs, Pistons. It's not sour grapes this is just fact's. Also don't forget what happened a few years back when LA had the 4 HOF's. They were supposed to win the title right away. They went to the finals lost to the Pistons and were dismantled. That should show what the concern of many on this board is over the whole throw a team together and they win thing. It's the reason why no one is giving the Celtics the title off the bat either.

In sports Patience is usually a virtue.
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Post#147 » by rpa » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:39 am

I don't think they will. Gasol is a good solid player but he's not the superstar that Laker fans seem to try and make him out to be. There are a few other crucial components to consider:

1) Defense: During their title run the Lakers had a shutdown wing defender (Fox) and good post defenders (Shaq & Horry) along with great weakside help (Shaq). As a matter of fact the other 2 title teams of the 2000s had the same (the Pistons & the Spurs). I'd argue that the Lakers don't have any of those 3 things right now. They do NOT have a shutdown perimeter player (no Laker fans, Kobe is not a shutdown defender and neither is Ariza). Their post defenders are decent but not at nowhere near Shaq (in his prime) or Horry (an underrated defender at PF in his prime). And while Bynum is good he's nowhere near the weakside help defender Shaq was in his prime.

2) Redundancy on offense. Gasol may be a good player but his skill is playing in the post. Haven't Laker fans been Oooo'ing and Ahhh'ing at Bynum's post skills this year? Having multiple post players is all nice and good but playing off of each other is difficult (see Randolph & Curry as examples of this).

3) Clutchness. Pau isn't clutch, Bynum isn't a shooter, and Odom isn't too clutch either. That leaves Fisher & Kobe as the prime targets at the end of games.

4) Chemistry. We have absolutely zero idea how the Lakers are going to mesh. The teams they'll be contending with have been playing together & honing their chemistry for years.

5) Outside shooting. The one thing that no 1 has mentioned is that this move is going to push Odom to SF full time. Problem being? Odom's shooting 22% from the 3pt line this year and is a lifetime 31% 3pt shooter. That's pretty bad for a wing player. Sure, the Lakers have 3pt shooting off the bench but when it comes down to it the Lakers are going to have Kobe, Bynum, Odom, & Gasol playing 35-40 minutes a game leaving little time for the 3pt shooters on the floor.


Right now I'd still take a healthy Spurs team over the Lakers. I think the Lakers are now legitimately on that next tier with Dallas & Phoenix with Utah just behind.
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Post#148 » by Bgil » Sun Feb 3, 2008 9:02 am

5) Outside shooting. The one thing that no 1 has mentioned is that this move is going to push Odom to SF full time. Problem being? Odom's shooting 22% from the 3pt line this year and is a lifetime 31% 3pt shooter. That's pretty bad for a wing player. Sure, the Lakers have 3pt shooting off the bench but when it comes down to it the Lakers are going to have Kobe, Bynum, Odom, & Gasol playing 35-40 minutes a game leaving little time for the 3pt shooters on the floor.


I agree. Part of me wants to move Odom to the bench like the Spurs do with Ginobili and the Mavs do with Terry. That allows us to start the appropriate role player depending on the matchups. Ariza can start sometimes for defensive purposes or we can put Vlad or Sasha in for their outside shooting.

The other part of me thinks Lamar should just take to being a slasher the way Ariza does when he's left open. If you double off Lamar then you're basically not boxing out on our best rebounder. Lamar COULD make it work. It's iffy but possible.

besides, part of the reason he's shooting a lower 3pt percentage is because he's not taking as many. He's not our initiator anymore so he hangs out on the perimeter a lot less. That's a good thing BTW.

3) Clutchness. Pau isn't clutch, Bynum isn't a shooter, and Odom isn't too clutch either. That leaves Fisher & Kobe as the prime targets at the end of games.

Kwame and Smush (instead of Gasol and Fisher) weren't clutch either. I don't think we've regressed in this area.
With Gasol in the lineup we probably won't have as many close games because we'll be blowing more teams out than previously.

1) Defense: During their title run the Lakers had a shutdown wing defender (Fox) and good post defenders (Shaq & Horry) along with great weakside help (Shaq). As a matter of fact the other 2 title teams of the 2000s had the same (the Pistons & the Spurs). I'd argue that the Lakers don't have any of those 3 things right now. They do NOT have a shutdown perimeter player (no Laker fans, Kobe is not a shutdown defender and neither is Ariza).


When Kobe doesn't have to drop 30+ every night for us to win then he plays shut down D. With another scorer in the lineup we can go back to 2004 Kobe or earlier this season (w/Bynum ) Kobe or FIBA Kobe. He'll play harder on D because he doesn't have to work as hard on O.

Gasol actually gives us another shot blocker and a tougher defender at the 4 than LO so it's definitely an improvement from earlier this year (after Bynum comes back). You're right that it's not Shaq and Horry but still better than earlier this season and last year.

2) Redundancy on offense. Gasol may be a good player but his skill is playing in the post. Haven't Laker fans been Oooo'ing and Ahhh'ing at Bynum's post skills this year? Having multiple post players is all nice and good but playing off of each other is difficult (see Randolph & Curry as examples of this).


The problem with NY is that they are poorly coached. It's a team full of chuckers with no rebounders (other than D Lee) and no true PG.

Remember, Gasol replaces Kwame Brown on offense. Just the fact that he can reliably catch passes and finish around the hoop makes us a far superior team. Everything else he brings is a bonus.

You really shouldn't be comparing us to the Shaq-era Lakers but to the Kwame Brown-era Lakers. Gasol improves us in everyway.

Odom also has to get used to being the teams 4th option.


I doubt there's another guy in the league making 14 mil that is better suited to be a 4th option. Marion maybe?
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Post#149 » by Hoops Pimp » Sun Feb 3, 2008 9:10 am

[quote="Trixx"]-= original quote snipped =-



You can go ahead and hand them the championship right nbow if you want, but dont be disappointedly when/if they dont get it this season like im saying.

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Post#150 » by tnayrbrocks » Sun Feb 3, 2008 11:02 am

1) Defense: During their title run the Lakers had a shutdown wing defender (Fox) and good post defenders (Shaq & Horry) along with great weakside help (Shaq). As a matter of fact the other 2 title teams of the 2000s had the same (the Pistons & the Spurs). I'd argue that the Lakers don't have any of those 3 things right now. They do NOT have a shutdown perimeter player (no Laker fans, Kobe is not a shutdown defender and neither is Ariza). Their post defenders are decent but not at nowhere near Shaq (in his prime) or Horry (an underrated defender at PF in his prime). And while Bynum is good he's nowhere near the weakside help defender Shaq was in his prime.

Comparing the defense of this new laker team to that of the 2000 laker dynasty team is a little ridiculous. i will give you that the dynasty team did a shut down defender in fox and great post defenders in shaq and horry. But how convenient it is for you to ignore the strengths of this new team. Bynum and Pau might not be the greatest man to man defenders but they can hold their ground and BOTH are great shot blockers unlike the horry-o'neal combo.
Ariza and Bryant may not be "shutdown" defenders in the league but who the hell is? I can only think of 3 defenders that are arguably better defenders in prince, bowen, and artest. I'll take 2 out of 5 on one team anyday of the week.

2) Redundancy on offense. Gasol may be a good player but his skill is playing in the post. Haven't Laker fans been Oooo'ing and Ahhh'ing at Bynum's post skills this year? Having multiple post players is all nice and good but playing off of each other is difficult (see Randolph & Curry as examples of this).

The fact that you brought this up leads me to believe that you haven't watched many laker games and don't know wtf your talking about. Bynum seldom plays in the post but gets most of his points off of the pick n roll and put backs. And Gasol plays the high-post, which you also conveniently left out. Pau also plays extremely effectively face up to the basket, something andrew does not do. Pau has a jumper. etc. Can they both play the low post? sure they can. Do they do it often? not so much.

3) Clutchness. Pau isn't clutch, Bynum isn't a shooter, and Odom isn't too clutch either. That leaves Fisher & Kobe as the prime targets at the end of games.

Yea, because only teams with 5 clutch players win championships :noway:

4) Chemistry. We have absolutely zero idea how the Lakers are going to mesh. The teams they'll be contending with have been playing together & honing their chemistry for years.

I remember there was a Pistons team a couple years ago who traded for Rasheed Wallace at the tradedeadline and ended up winning a championship. I will give you that that team meshed very well with each other. But odds are that chemistry with arguably the best coach in the league should not be an issue with two legitimate all-stars.

5) Outside shooting. The one thing that no 1 has mentioned is that this move is going to push Odom to SF full time. Problem being? Odom's shooting 22% from the 3pt line this year and is a lifetime 31% 3pt shooter. That's pretty bad for a wing player. Sure, the Lakers have 3pt shooting off the bench but when it comes down to it the Lakers are going to have Kobe, Bynum, Odom, & Gasol playing 35-40 minutes a game leaving little time for the 3pt shooters on the floor.

Like the guy said above me, the coaching staff will probably tell Lamar to look to cut more and play off the ball as best as he can. Pau is an excellent passer so it should be fun to watch. But i really doubt that if this really is the reason for them not winning a championship or playing effectively. Putting Lamar on the bench and bringing in another 6'10 snowboarder off the bench should not be a problem. Last i heard, that guy's a pretty good shooter.
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Post#151 » by z_from_kc » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:55 pm

This Lakers team has never been past the first round, and I don't think Pau has ever even won a playoff game. Let's not plan a ring ceremony just yet.

Put a prime Shaq with this team, and I pronounce them champs, but Pau F*cking Gasol????? Give me a break.
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Post#152 » by ClubLakers KB8 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:58 pm

Next season the Lakers will be the best team in the West. A smart Odom deal and a healthy Bynum and they're ready.
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Post#153 » by Jules Winnfield » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:07 pm

lol, the lakers have all the tools.
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Post#154 » by Kobay » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:29 pm

lakers need to get healthy by next year work on team defense then i can bet my money on the games.
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Post#155 » by tnayrbrocks » Mon Feb 4, 2008 8:40 am

z_from_kc wrote:This Lakers team has never been past the first round, and I don't think Pau has ever even won a playoff game. Let's not plan a ring ceremony just yet.

Put a prime Shaq with this team, and I pronounce them champs, but Pau F*cking Gasol????? Give me a break.


The laker squad now is clearly not the same as the teams that have lost in the first round
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Post#156 » by JordansBulls » Mon Feb 4, 2008 1:08 pm

z_from_kc wrote:This Lakers team has never been past the first round, and I don't think Pau has ever even won a playoff game. Let's not plan a ring ceremony just yet.

Put a prime Shaq with this team, and I pronounce them champs, but Pau F*cking Gasol????? Give me a break.


:clap:

But with due respect this team should win it all with the talent on it.
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Post#157 » by Synciere » Mon Feb 4, 2008 2:02 pm

UDRIH14 wrote:
Synciere wrote:
dont get ahead of yourselves, SUDOKA looms


HA!!! Now I know good and well San Antonio is not looking at Udoka to make stops.. Understanding that you're probably being sarcastic, that is exactly why I would be hesitant to pick them over the Lakers once Gasol has had time to gel... I think he's that much of an improvement over Kwame and Odom...
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Post#158 » by Triple M » Mon Feb 4, 2008 3:51 pm

I feel this poll should be 100% for option 3 it is way too early to tell how good the Lakers will be. They are missing one of there key players to injury, they have to work in their new acquisition maybe acquisitions by trade deadline while only having 2.5 months to build chemistry.
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Post#159 » by triplet1984 » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:33 pm

for some reason that sig that someone has with the Celtics Big 3 and the dialogue balloons comes to mind. Particularly the bit at the end where Tim Duncan pops up saying "not on my watch!"
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Post#160 » by Tesla » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:43 pm

JordansBulls wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



:clap:

But with due respect this team should win it all with the talent on it.


There are a few teams that match the Lakers in the talent department, and are already more proven. (SAS, PHO, DAL, BOS, DET). Then there are some teams that have close to the same amount of talent, that are not proven (HOU,DEN,UTA) ~ Then some borderline talent teams (NO,GS), and maybe add Cleveland in the mix because of chemistry/defense. It takes a lot of things to win a championship, talent first, luck with injuries, and chemistry. There are several talented teams, there is no "That team should win no doubt on paper." Simply stated: you are trying to put anything less than a championship this year as a failure of Kobe Bryant (your mo)... after all the second youngest? team usually doesn't win the chip.

This year the Lakers priority is to get healthy, and gel together and go strong for a playoff push. Success would be getting past the 1st round, and giving a hard fought battle against a playoff tested team. Then next year the expectations (if healthy) should be finals/title.
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