JS: CV is not happy here

[EastSideBucksFan]

By CHARLES F. GARDNER
cgardner@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Feb. 4, 2008
St. Francis - Milwaukee Bucks forward Charlie Villanueva has been aching for a chance to play meaningful minutes.

Bucks forward Charlie Villanueva wants more playing time and could get it because of an injury to Yi Jianlian.

But he's not happy the chance could come due to an injury to starting power forward Yi Jianlian, who banged his right shoulder early in the Bucks' 91-83 loss to the Houston Rockets on Saturday night at the Bradley Center.

Yi, who has started all 48 games for the Bucks this season, underwent a magnetic resonance imaging exam Monday morning, and the team was awaiting test results.

"It just feels strange," said Yi, who had a hard time lifting his arm over his head Monday but did travel with the team as it left town for a two-game trip to Memphis and Dallas.

If Yi is unable to play tonight in Memphis, Villanueva would be in line to start for the first time this season.

"That's definitely an unfortunate situation," Villanueva said after the Bucks' practice session at the Cousins Center. "I don't want playing time like that. I don't wish harm on a teammate.

"But I understand the situation. The opportunity is there, and now I just have to seize it."

Villanueva's frustration has grown in recent weeks, and he felt compelled to address trade rumors on the blog he writes for NBA.com, with the league trade deadline approaching Feb. 21. He elaborated a bit on those comments Monday.

"Is a trade possible? It's possible, definitely," Villanueva said. "Anything can happen in this business. I feel like I didn't get traded here to be the ninth man. I'm playing 19 minutes a game. It's definitely frustrating, but I've got to stick with it and keep working and see what happens."

The Bucks made a strong commitment to Yi when they signed him on Aug. 29, and the 7-foot rookie earned the starting job in training camp. But Villanueva said Yi's starting role is not the issue.

"I don't really care, coming off the bench," Villanueva said. "I've done it before. My thing is, use me, you know."

Villanueva scored 14 points and grabbed six rebounds in 18 minutes Saturday, but he was disappointed to return to the bench for the decisive stage of the game.

He scored two dunks and a tip shot early in the fourth quarter, but Villanueva exited with 5:45 remaining (Houston led, 74-70) as Yi returned to the game.

With so much interest in the game in China, it was understandable that Yi returned to the lineup, but Villanueva was not feeling too good while watching from the bench.

"I don't really care who's watching or not," Villanueva said. "I want to win basketball games. That's what it's about.

"Coach (Larry Krystkowiak) told me at the beginning of the game, he wanted me to provide energy," Villanueva said. "I think I provided that in the Houston game, especially in the fourth quarter. But in the last 5 minutes of the game, I was on the bench. That means the most to me, the last 5 minutes. I was frustrated; I was bothered, to be honest."

Villanueva spent his rookie season with the Toronto Raptors, who finished with a 27-55 record in 2005-'06. Now he has endured two more losing seasons with the Bucks, including a 28-54 mark last season.

"I'm tired of losing, man," Villanueva said. "I don't want to go out there and say I want to get traded and this and that. It's not fair to my teammates, not fair to this organization.

"I'm going to still keep it professional, be the best player and best person I can be."

Villanueva was limited to 39 games, including 17 starts, last season while fighting injuries. He missed 10 games with a torn elbow ligament and 30 with right shoulder tendinitis, and eventually underwent shoulder surgery in late March.

This season the 6-foot-11 forward has averaged 9.4 points and 4.8 rebounds while playing 19.9 minutes per game.

The former Connecticut star averaged 11.8 points and 5.8 rebounds in 25.2 minutes in his first season with Milwaukee, after being acquired in the June 2006 trade which sent point guard T.J. Ford to Toronto.

Last summer the Bucks picked up the 2008-'09 option year for $3.45 million. Villanueva is earning $2.7 million this season.

"It doesn't feel comfortable," he said when asked about his future with the Bucks. "Do I see myself here? It's hard to know. My contract is coming up, and that's definitely in the back of my mind."

[MickeyDavis]

See ya Charlie

[Mags FTW]

And I'm not happy when our power foward camps out at the 3-point-line.

[ReasonablySober]

As bad as our SF position has been, why the hell haven't they tried to play CV and Yi together? You can say it's because of defense, but that's crap. The Bucks don't have a single standout defender on their roster. Bogut is solid, but he's no stopper. Mike and Mo are sieves. Yi gets lost every game out there, leading to wide open buckets. Simmons gets abused by anyone with a shred of athleticism and offensive ability. These guys all get huge minutes.

But fine, trade him.

[paul]

Yep CV is on the way out, no doubt about that. In saying that everything he said in the article was fact, and i have no problem with any of it. I was really annoyed when he got the hook in the 4th against Houston, it was clearly the wrong call and it cost us, and it's not the first time. Like Charlie or not, and i know many don't, he's been screwed over many times this season by a coach who obviously has a personal problem with him.

[europa]

And I'm not happy when our power foward camps out at the 3-point-line.

Or doesn't bother to defend and only show up to play once every 2-3 weeks.

Kohl really needs to end his crush on Villanueva and give Harris the green light to trade him.

[0BobLobLaw0]

So it is professional to not demand a trade or whatever, but complain to the local media and pretty much say that, with out saying it?

[EastSideBucksFan]

So it is professional to not demand a trade or whatever, but complain to the local media and pretty much say that, with out saying it?

I don't think any of what he said here constitutes "complaining"


He's been unhappy all year and it's only coming out now in the local media that he is not pleased with his role.

What he said is mostly true and I agree with most of it. When he was very effective in the Houston game he pulled for all the wrong reasons.

And he's right, I don't think we gave up our first round pick starting point guard for a guy who is going to play 19 minutes a night. We didn't invest in him for that role.

It is just plain smart for us as an organization to get him on the floor in whatever capacity and I'm definitely not against using him at SF just to get him some burn and boost his value. Offensive production = value in plenty of GM's eyes. Right now they see him languishing on the bench behind a promising, yet wholly undproductive YI.


Complain all you want about CV's lack of defense and his affinity to camp out at the three point line. But right now I can poke more holes in Yi's game than I can CV's game. CV is decidely a better rebounder and scorer. Plain and simple. Yi is a better shotblocker and fundementally a better defender.

Right now, when we're averaging like 80 points and giving up 100, I'll take the advantage CV gives us in scoring and rebounding than the "fundmental" defense that Yi brings.

Also, if Yi loses his job, I think he should understand we need to boost CV's value and in the end it will only benefit Yi.

[MickeyDavis]

So it is professional to not demand a trade or whatever, but complain to the local media and pretty much say that, with out saying it?

I


Complain all you want about CV's lack of defense and his affinity to camp out at the three point line. But right now I can poke more holes in Yi's game than I can CV's game. CV is decidely a better rebounder and scorer. Plain and simple. Yi is a better shotblocker and fundementally a better defender.

Right now, when we're averaging like 80 points and giving up 100, I'll take the advantage CV gives us in scoring and rebounding than the "fundmental" defense that Yi brings.

Also, if Yi loses his job, I think he should understand we need to boost CV's value and in the end it will only benefit Yi.

And CV is in his third year and Yi in his first.

[JHSFIVE]

Yi's injury comes at the perfect time. I just hope that Charlie averages like 18 and 8 or so just so we can get the best we can for him prior to the deadline.

just call me CPT Obvious.

That being said, what does anyone honestly think that we could get for him? Perhaps cap relief by throwing in bobby or DG. I'm guessing that we won't get much.

[europa]

Villanueva's rebounding rate is less than 1 per minute more than Yi's. He is not the great rebounder this forum hyped him out to be and he isn't a decidedly better rebounder than Yi.

[paul]

Villanueva's rebounding rate is less than 1 per minute more than Yi's. He is not the great rebounder this forum hyped him out to be and he isn't a decidedly better rebounder than Yi.

No but he's a decidedly better nba player than Yi right now. Yi is getting an unbelievable pass on this forum and i have no idea why, i still really like the guy's future and he has great potential and all that, but right now he sucks just about as badly as any starter in the league. If people are defending his potential for the future that's fine and i agree, but if they are defending his current play they are blinded by that potential imo. CV is a serious threat on offense, and contrary to most reports his D isn't that far below Yi's as his is pretty poor as well. CV is a better scorer, handler, rebounder, much better at handling defensive pressure and is a better passer than Yi, while Yi is a better shot blocker and has a very slight edge on defense. Their relative ability isn't even close at this point imo.

It's also worth bearing in mind that they are quite possibly about the same age.

CV is an extremely talented young big who's seen to be a poor defender with motivational issues, could have sworn i heard the same thing said about our center around 1000 times not so long ago. If he catches on in a decent system he will put up very good numbers and be a solid player imo.

[europa]

I'm at a loss to figure out what Villanueva has done to merit a starting job. He's a putrid defender, his effort is often lacking and his shot selection is usually horrible.

There's no question Yi is struggling and should be on the bench. I'm in 100% agreement. But I don't see how he deserves to sit behind Villanueva given how bad Villanueva has been this season.

Again, my proposal would be to start Ruffin. He clearly isn't an offensive player but unlike Villanueva he'll defend, play hard and do the dirty work. Quite frankly, I think he's done more to merit a starting job this season than Villanueva has.

[fam3381]

Villanueva's rebounding rate is less than 1 per minute more than Yi's. He is not the great rebounder this forum hyped him out to be and he isn't a decidedly better rebounder than Yi.

The numbers suggest he's clearly been a better rebounder than Yi this year, though you could also argue Yi would rebound more if he didn't start next to Bogut. Yi would certainly do better if he had stronger hands.

Yi's rebound rate (% of available rebounds when on the court) is 12.7 while CV's is 14.6, which is a not insignificant difference. That ranks CV 21st and Yi 36th out of 55 qualifying PFs. The past two years CV's rr has been 13.5 and 13.6, so this year it might be randomly higher or it might be helped by seeing less minutes with Bogut.

I wouldn't say CV is a great rebounder by any stretch of the imagination, but he's been very solid this year in that department and better than Yi. Whether the same will be true two years from now I don't know, but I think we immediately become a better rebounding team with CV in the lineup--though also worse defensively.

[DH34Phan]

I'm at a loss to figure out what Villanueva has done to merit a starting job. He's a putrid defender, his effort is often lacking and his shot selection is usually horrible.

There's no question Yi is struggling and should be on the bench. I'm in 100% agreement. But I don't see how he deserves to sit behind Villanueva given how bad Villanueva has been this season.

Again, my proposal would be to start Ruffin. He clearly isn't an offensive player but unlike Villanueva he'll defend, play hard and do the dirty work. Quite frankly, I think he's done more to merit a starting job this season than Villanueva has.

Our whole PF situation is pretty depressing. Yi and CV are averaging a combined 19/10.6 in 47 minutes when we could have had Zach Randolph for nothing and he would get us 17/10 in 33 minutes.

Our PF situation, along with our SF situation, is a huge reason why we are struggling so bad.

[paul]

I like Ruffin as well, he does many things this team needs, but right now one thing this team definitely needs is offense. We just can't score, and CV gives us a more diverse option than playing another chucking guard and a no shoot 4. I'd like to see Ruffin's minutes bumped in Yi's absence, but I still think CV should get the lions share. Worth bearing in mind that no matter how deep some of our dislike is for CV the guy has been pulled many times when he's just heating up, like in the Houston game. We don't take him out there and he ends up with 20 and 15 you'd have to say he's done something to earn that spot, likewise the toronto game when (from memory) he had double figures early, was playing good D, and ended up playing 14 minutes or something? Only two examples I know, but there are quite a few more.

I also wouldn't mind seeing our coach remove his head from his a** and show a little faith in CV as he finally has with Bogut, seems to have paid off there. I'm not saying CV is Bogut, but I do believe he can play vastly superior ball to Yi if given the same opportunities Yi has somehow (not) earnt.

[europa]

fam, I'm comparing their rebounding rates on a per minute basis. Villanueva averages 4.8 rebounds in 19.9 minutes per game. Yi averages 5.8 in 27.4 minutes per game. If you project Villanueva's production to Yi's 27.4 minutes per game it would come to 6.6 rebounds per game - less than 1 rebound more. That's hardly a decided edge.

Now projecting numbers like that can be a very flawed way of measuring production. I realize that. But even when you look at Villanueva's career rebounding production - 5.9 in 25.7 minutes per game - it doesn't result in him being a decidedly better rebounder.

[Bucks_Revenge]

getting the sixth pick was the worse thing that could of happen to this franchise....


if we only could of drafted KD we would of been ok...

mo
redd
KD
CV
Bogut

that line-up is what we needed...sure Yi will be great but we did not need him...CV can be just as good.

[msiris]

I also wouldn't mind seeing our coach remove his head from his a** and show a little faith in CV as he finally has with Bogut, seems to have paid off there. I'm not saying CV is Bogut, but I do believe he can play vastly superior ball to Yi if given the same opportunities Yi has somehow (not) earnt.

[Noogle]

fam, I'm comparing their rebounding rates on a per minute basis. Villanueva averages 4.8 rebounds in 19.9 minutes per game. Yi averages 5.8 in 27.4 minutes per game. If you project Villanueva's production to Yi's 27.4 minutes per game it would come to 6.6 rebounds per game - less than 1 rebound more. That's hardly a decided edge.

Rebounds per 40 minutes:

Bogut - 10.5
Gadz - 10.2
CV - 9.7
Voskuhl - 9.5
Yi - 8.5
Ruffin - 8.2

I mean, if you're going to say that the difference in rebounding rate between CV and Yi is not very significant, then you would also have to be willing to say that the difference in rebounding rate between Bogut and CV is not significant, given that the normalized gap there is even smaller (0.8 rebs for the latter, vs. 1.2 rebs for the former).

Which is something I'm not sure you're going to be willing to do.