GT: Wizards @ Sixers 02-05-08

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Ruz, if you question my objectivity you should read the Fire EJ thread about now. Seems many others are saying Haywood on the bench is why this went down as a loss.

[GilArenas88]

This team need threes things...

1. A new coach...

2. Balls...

3. Heart...

EJ is not to blame totally for this game, but once again his benching of Haywood, small ball, failing to adjust, and great play calling (see Stevenson's three with us right out of a time out) really hurt us. The mental toughness of this team at times looks great, then they look like a bunch of little girls out their looking at the refs for help and looking like poor puppy dogs.

As for the team, props to Haywood for coming to play and no onle else in a game we deperately needed, were now officially losing 8-10 in a row, sad, because after that Dallas win we looked great then it all fell apart. Jamison, Mason, Stevenson, Daniels were all major reasons for why we lost. Jamison with his chucking, and those flops he does on critical possesions all the time makes him look like the biggest pussy. Stevenson killed us with turnovers, and chucking the three. Daniels was completely punked on defense. Mason learn how to dribble and handle the press.

This team is the sam ole same ole team they show flashes of greatness, get some good press, get cocky and start to suck. Sometimes I wish we had a Kobe type player, or a Jordan, or just someone that would just scream at this team and say suck it up, play ball, and play it the right way. Also this team does not need a players coach, they need a disciplinary coach at the helm that will kick them in their butts. Everytime were in trouble and we are not getting calls or we take a timeout, EJ has the same perplexed look on, he always blames the coach instead of the players.

Im seriously contimplating taking a break from the team for awhile, which is hard for me, because I live and die by the Wizards. With that said though I'm tired of being just mediocre, when I know for a fact we have the ability to be very good. Those wins versus Boston and Dallas are not flukes, this team when they decide to play defense, share the ball, and play smart ball have the ability to be awesome, the problem with them is that they get complacent with succsess, and when we get cocky and conplacent, we lose and it looks bad. I think this stems a lot from their coach.

I don't care what anyone says, when I coach has a big man like Brendan playing great and just decides to bench him for a long period of time, their something extremely wrong going on. EJ just sat their while his small ball lineup got torched in the fourth and were outscore 17-0, then its like, "ah-oh lets put Brendan in now after benching him for 8 minutes.
Its sad because all of us want this team to do what their capable of so much, but I'm afraid that they never will with EJ at the helm, and the Wiz front office has a man cruch on EJ.

[dandridge 10]

Ruz, if you question my objectivity you should read the Fire EJ thread about now. Seems many others are saying Haywood on the bench is why this went down as a loss.

I don't know CCJ. While I agree with you that E.J. generally needs to play Haywood more minutes, I think you give Haywood's presence too much credit for the difference in many games. Yeah, the Sixers went on a run around the time Haywood left the game. However, the Sixers also turned up the defensive screws on our guards right around that time and forced a lot of turnovers even before they would have had a chance to get the ball to Haywood. Besides, Haywood came back with a little more than three minutes left. That was plenty of time for Haywood to make a difference in the game, but I saw no change in the Wizards play with him back in the line-up. Its easy to say E.J.'s failure to keep Haywood in the game was the reason why we lost because it is impossible to disprove. We will never know. However, I think its more plausible to say we lost the game because Butler was out, Jamison could't throw a frickin' pea in the ocean, and the Wizard backcourt couldn't handle the Sixers pressure.

Now, if you want to bash E.J. for playing Butler so minutes in the Lakers blowout game, which likely contributed to him reinjuring his hip flexor, I'm right there with you.

[gowiz999]

The substitutions did not matter in this one. BH would have helped but we still would have lost. All the blame goes on the players. They completely fell apart and choked in the 4th. Seriously, Philly should have been dog tired in the 4th considering they were playing the second game in 2 nights yet they blew us away. Should never ever happen in the NBA. This team defies logic.

[GilArenas88]

Dandrige11 said...

I don't know CCJ. While I agree with you that E.J. generally needs to play Haywood more minutes, I think you give Haywood's presence too much credit for the difference in many games. Yeah, the Sixers went on a run around the time Haywood left the game. However, the Sixers also turned up the defensive screws on our guards right around that time and forced a lot of turnovers even before they would have had a chance to get the ball to Haywood. Besides, Haywood came back with a little more than three minutes left. That was plenty of time for Haywood to make a difference in the game, but I saw no change in the Wizards play with him back in the line-up. Its easy to say E.J.'s failure to keep Haywood in the game was the reason why we lost because it is impossible to disprove. We will never know. However, I think its more plausible to say we lost the game because Butler was out, Jamison could't throw a frickin' pea in the ocean, and the Wizard backcourt couldn't handle the Sixers pressure.

Yes your right that even when Haywood came in he didn't really make a difference, your missing the point though. By that time the Sixers had all the momentum in the world and all our players looked scared and defeated. I bet if you put Haywood in say half way through their run the games could have been much different, instead EJ just refuses to give up on the lineup that was in their, and game over.

On a side note we have to figure something out for Andray, he's just a much better player when starting when he comes off the bench he just seems like he doesn't know what to do. Unfortunately we have two All-Star fowards and dear god dont bench Haywood. I think we should move Butler to SG and Deshawn to the PG.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

-= original quote snipped =-



I don't know CCJ. While I agree with you that E.J. generally needs to play Haywood more minutes, I think you give Haywood's presence too much credit for the difference in many games. Yeah, the Sixers went on a run around the time Haywood left the game. However, the Sixers also turned up the defensive screws on our guards right around that time and forced a lot of turnovers even before they would have had a chance to get the ball to Haywood. Besides, Haywood came back with a little more than three minutes left. That was plenty of time for Haywood to make a difference in the game, but I saw no change in the Wizards play with him back in the line-up. Its easy to say E.J.'s failure to keep Haywood in the game was the reason why we lost because it is impossible to disprove. We will never know. However, I think its more plausible to say we lost the game because Butler was out, Jamison could't throw a frickin' pea in the ocean, and the Wizard backcourt couldn't handle the Sixers pressure.

Now, if you want to bash E.J. for playing Butler so minutes in the Lakers blowout game, which likely contributed to him reinjuring his hip flexor, I'm right there with you.

dandridge, by saying that with 3 minutes left there was plenty of time for Haywood to make a difference is to ignore the 16-point swing and huge momentum shift that occurred with Haywood out.

By the time Haywood came in Mason and Stevenson and Jamison were turning it over or settling for contested threes. The game was essentially OVER when BTH got back in.

As for playing Butler in the Laker game I didn't have to go on and on in the game thread after mentioning in the second EJ should rest them and play the bench.

After posting every game Gil played 40 mins early this season that Arenas was playing too much, I give up.

I made the Haywood's minutes thread early this season when MANY thought Etan was the better C.

I view this forum as just a place to vent, now, even though I'm fairly certain the key players have access to what we're saying and at least a couple players read the posts a good bit of the time.

I look at influencing EJ positively as a loss cause.

I think there are even fans who attack folks like hands, who makes a lot of sense but annoys others at times, but who at the same time protect darn near everything EJ does.

I'm convinced people aren't going to change most of their opinions.

I've changed my opinion of DeShawn. I like what AD can do but I'd still include him in a trade if it sent Etan and Darius. I had changed my mind on EJ when it appeared the team had transformed itself into a defensive juggernaut; but now, I say if they don't make the playoffs goodbye, EJ.

This rant isn't directed at you or anybody, dandridge.

It just sucks to lose a game like this one.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Dandrige11 said...

I don't know CCJ. While I agree with you that E.J. generally needs to play Haywood more minutes, I think you give Haywood's presence too much credit for the difference in many games. Yeah, the Sixers went on a run around the time Haywood left the game. However, the Sixers also turned up the defensive screws on our guards right around that time and forced a lot of turnovers even before they would have had a chance to get the ball to Haywood. Besides, Haywood came back with a little more than three minutes left. That was plenty of time for Haywood to make a difference in the game, but I saw no change in the Wizards play with him back in the line-up. Its easy to say E.J.'s failure to keep Haywood in the game was the reason why we lost because it is impossible to disprove. We will never know. However, I think its more plausible to say we lost the game because Butler was out, Jamison could't throw a frickin' pea in the ocean, and the Wizard backcourt couldn't handle the Sixers pressure.

Yes your right that even when Haywood came in he didn't really make a difference, your missing the point though. By that time the Sixers had all the momentum in the world and all our players looked scared and defeated. I bet if you put Haywood in say half way through their run the games could have been much different, instead EJ just refuses to give up on the lineup that was in their, and game over.

On a side note we have to figure something out for Andray, he's just a much better player when starting when he comes off the bench he just seems like he doesn't know what to do. Unfortunately we have two All-Star fowards and dear god dont bench Haywood. I think we should move Butler to SG and Deshawn to the PG.

[closg00]

-= original quote snipped =-



I don't know CCJ. While I agree with you that E.J. generally needs to play Haywood more minutes, I think you give Haywood's presence too much credit for the difference in many games. Yeah, the Sixers went on a run around the time Haywood left the game. However, the Sixers also turned up the defensive screws on our guards right around that time and forced a lot of turnovers even before they would have had a chance to get the ball to Haywood. Besides, Haywood came back with a little more than three minutes left. That was plenty of time for Haywood to make a difference in the game, but I saw no change in the Wizards play with him back in the line-up. Its easy to say E.J.'s failure to keep Haywood in the game was the reason why we lost because it is impossible to disprove. We will never know. However, I think its more plausible to say we lost the game because Butler was out, Jamison could't throw a frickin' pea in the ocean, and the Wizard backcourt couldn't handle the Sixers pressure.

Now, if you want to bash E.J. for playing Butler so minutes in the Lakers blowout game, which likely contributed to him reinjuring his hip flexor, I'm right there with you.

I concur. Haywood was largely ineffective on the defensive end (zero blocked shots). The quicker Sixers abused him constantly for pull-ups, lay-ups, you name it....and he is NOT a good rebounder.

This game actually would have been a good game to give D-Mac major minutes. D-Song should never have set foot on the court against this Sixer team.

If Ernie were thinking of pulling the plug on EJ, now would be a good time, the coming stretch of games will all be loss's, and Randy Ayers would be a better coach to make a playoff push after the all-star break.
Haywood simply isn't a good match-up with faster, more athletic guys.

[nate33]

EJ is not getting fired guys. Put it out of your mind.

The team is 24-23. We're 21-18 without Arenas. We're 20-14 without Arenas as long as Butler is healthy.

We could lose the next 5 games in a row and EG won't have one thought about firing EJ.

[gowiz999]

Send AJ to the bench.

PG- AD
SG- DS
SF- CB
PF- AB
C- BH

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You guys talking about Haywood being ineffective must have watched the first half. I didn't. I got in from work when the third started. Haywood defended Thaddeus Young at the rim and forced a miss.

Haywood scored consecutive and-1s. Haywood hit 6 straight FTs. Haywood score 10 by himself in the third. When Haywood was benched he was dominating and the Wizards had a 12 point lead.

All this Haywood ineffective stuff ended at halftime.

EJ must have seen what you guys did because he missed the third, apparently, and benched Haywood and forgot about him as the game spiraled out of control.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Send AJ to the bench.

PG- AD
SG- DS
SF- CB
PF- AB
C- BH

In the short term, rest Caron til his hip is healed.

Put AJ at SF and just sit Butler altogether.

Let Nick Young and McGuire get some run off the bench,

[wateryd]

mistakes were made, but you don't blow a 90-78 lead with 8 minutes to play against a crappy team with its best player on the bench. yeah, losing caron hurt us, of course, but this is just a choke job, plain and simple. everyone is responsible. the team is struggling and its just going to get worse, but it's simply regression to the mean with the squad that we're working with.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why not just bring in Antawn for Caron at 90-78?

Make that one sub and leave Haywood in and the game's a win. I'm not blaming Andray but opponents dunks and attacking the rim just don't happen much when Haywood's in there, and in this particular game the Sixers had no answer for Haywood.

Why sub while you're expanding a lead except for a hurting Caron?

[hands11]

EJ is not getting fired guys. Put it out of your mind.

The team is 24-23. We're 21-18 without Arenas. We're 20-14 without Arenas as long as Butler is healthy.

We could lose the next 5 games in a row and EG won't have one thought about firing EJ.

That is a stretch to say the least.

It more likely that EG has had lots of thoughts of firing EJ only he can't because he is Abe's new Wes.

It is more probably that EG never liked the idea that the HC was picked prior to him being selected GM. A GM would want his own guy. This probably isnt EGs call since the owner picked the HC.

I'm sure EG talks with Abe about this and they have some goals and a time line for if and when a move would be made. The fact that EJ is signed to a multi-year deal doesn't give EG many options with Abe as the owner because Abe wouldn't want to part with the money.

[hands11]

You guys talking about Haywood being ineffective must have watched the first half. I didn't. I got in from work when the third started. Haywood defended Thaddeus Young at the rim and forced a miss.

Haywood scored consecutive and-1s. Haywood hit 6 straight FTs. Haywood score 10 by himself in the third. When Haywood was benched he was dominating and the Wizards had a 12 point lead.

All this Haywood ineffective stuff ended at halftime.

EJ must have seen what you guys did because he missed the third, apparently, and benched Haywood and forgot about him as the game spiraled out of control.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gamef ... ame=WASPHI


Haywood was abusing them. He could has easily been the high scorer for the game.

Other things I would have done differently.

He should have started AD, DS, AJ, AB, BH
CB has been hurt, I would have brought him back slowly and limited his minutes.

AB has been on a tear and plays better as a starter. They were out running us. That was their adv. We should have out bigged them and got them in foul trouble. You can run without the rebound.

Beaten by a team we easily could have beat. We had this one.

And where the hell is Nick Young?

Who was asking about EJ as COY?

Our record? Try CB and AJ. 2 All Stars (max mins.) along with a solid vet PG and an understated center in a weak conference. That will get you though 1/2 a season with a decent record before you wear down.

[KennyGreen]

the guys just look tired at this point...I agree w/ others who say play the young guys big minutes in the coming road games (which are likely losses anyhow) in an effort to rest AJ, CB and AD...just gotta try to hold on until Gil comes back (and pray that he does come back) in early/mid March...I hate to just roll over and concede losses but that's the reality of having injuries w/ a short bench and no money under the lux tax to work with...

[ZonkertheBrainless]

wind sprints!

[nate33]

Send AJ to the bench.

PG- AD
SG- DS
SF- CB
PF- AB
C- BH

I still don't understand this logic. Jamison has been our second-best player all season, and with Butler ailing, he's our best player. How could it possibly help matters to bench him?

The guy had ONE bad game. It happens.

Without Jamison on the floor, the team struggles to score. Jamison's on/off differential is a mind-boggling +23.9. The offense is a whopping 15.3 points better with him on the floor, and the defense is 8.7 points better. Jamison LEADS THE LEAGUE in on/off differential. His importance to the team is huge. Benching Jamison might well be the dumbest thing I've ever heard!

[Donkey McDonkerton]

I really try to stay away from these boards after a loss, it gets a little out of control.

After a good win or 2, we are awesome we are better without Gil.

After a bad loss or in this case a bad funk, it's back to the same old fire EJ, trade Jamison....

The team is tired, and without a healthy Caron, we are pretty bad. It's not that the coach needs to go, or anyone needs to be traded, we just have to get our ALL STARS healthy.