Shaq for Marion

[laVal03]

I will throw up in my mouth if this trade happens...............why can't Otis be half as "creative" as he thinks he is

[JaxMagic]

So does this mean there may be some truth to the Haslem for Redick rumor? Because the article that stated that rumor also mentioned Shaq for Marion and everyone thought that would never happen so they discredited the whole article...

[lovehoops01]

i'm suprised at the responses. i can easily see Phoenix's motivation for this deal:

Marion probably won't resign this offseason and Phoenix have the chance to add a big man to fill their biggest playoff hole.

I didn't say that I couldn't see Phoenix reasons for wanting to do it.

Marion probably will leave after this year, and they do need a big.

But doesn't it make them change their entire game philosophy, which has been playing no defense and getting up and down the court as quickly as possible? And does that work at midseason?

I mean, Pau isn't going to make the Lakers change their offensive philosophy. He will have to fit in. But Shaq is not capable of sprinting up and down the court with those thoroughbreds in Phoenix. I think he's definitely got more game left than he has shown this year. But the sprinting days are long gone for Shaq.

[theTHIEF]

could you envision

Nelson/whoever
Hedo/Evans
Shard/whoever
Marion/Cook/whoever
Dwight/Battie/Foyle

:drool:

i'd be happy about that...

i know, i know, end fantasy...

but i'd seriously be happy if we were some how able to land Andre Miller/Mike Miller or Vince Carter for the low low...so im insane...but i just know we are one starter and a few bench guys away from greatness...

[TheRevTy]

Jay, that's what I was thinking. And actually, in the General Board, they discredited the Shaq rumor because the JJ for Haslem rumor was on there. Yet here stands this Shaq for Marion thing all over ESPN.

Food for thought.

[lovehoops01]

Or maybe Riley is just putting all that stuff out there to try to piss off everyone else's players and to force other teams into making deals he wants made. Because, after all, he is such a nice guy.

Thief....you surprise me because you have played the game. I look to you to add a little basketball sense to the commentary on this board. You really think adding Vince helps this team? He's got a rep as a guy who plays no defense, really only comes to play when he wants and wants to spend all his time on the perimeter now shooting 3-pointers?

You really think Andre Miller makes this team better? Why does adding him help this team when he couldn't win with the Clippers with Elton Brand and Corey Maggette? Doesn't he just slow down this team? And he doesn't play any defense either.

And does Mike Miller play any defense?

They are all good players, very talented, talent upgrades to some of the players the Magic have now so don't get me wrong -- I mean no disrespect to them.

But Stan is complaining about the defense. And all people want to do is improve the offense. And do we have enough balls on the court in one game to try to play Dwight, Andre Miller/Vince/Mike Miller, Hedo and Rashard at the same time?

[theTHIEF]

Andre Miller
Evans
Hedo
Shard
Dwight

is a better offensive team than we have now

Nelson
Carter
Hedo
Shard
Dwight


is a better offensive team than we have now

Nelson
Miller
Hedo
Shard
Dwight


is a better offensive team than we have now

the interesting thing about all 3 of those guys is that each one of them can play hard off the screen and can get to the basket better than anyone we have now not named Hedo...

getting to the rim is something we are severely lacking in...SEVERELY...

adding a guy who can dominate the ball at the 1 or 2 would make this team very hard to deal with, now you have 4 guys to pick from with the double teams...no other team has that in this conference...

Andre Miller has AWESOME vision, and can get the ball downlow so much better than what we have now...and he CAN score, no matter what any other source tells you...not to mention he does play pretty good defense, better than Nelson and Arroyo combined...and, he's a legit 6'2...

Mike Miller is one of the best slashers that doesn't get as much credit as he deserves...he plays the curl and roll so smooth...his defense isn't very great, but he plays as good of defense as Hedo plays, and Hedo doesn't suck at defense, but he does what he can...

as for Vince, I don't care what anyone says, adding VC to this current squad, economically, we just became the best team in the east...VC/Dwight/Shard/Hedo is a powerhouse...we can buy defense if we end up with that starting line up...and you have seen what we can do without him, so if he goes down for a little bit, we can weighed in the water until he's back...

the best thing about each one of these guys is their value in the playoffs...you cant tell me you wouldn't love to have VC/Dwight/Hedo and Shard going to the line on every other drive game 6 of the ECF's...

and as for the defense thing, we can add a few other things with the MLE...just bring in a specialist and throw the rest to the wall...

[mattyBoi]

Thief i like the way you think!!

I agree totally.

We are a couple guys away!!

[lovehoops01]

Well, you'll have to bring in about 4 other things with the MLE because in order to get one of those guys for the salaries that we have on the books, you are going to have to trade four of them to get the payroll to work under the CBA in the trade. Not to mention that you've then got $55 million (the entire cap) wrapped up in three players between Dwight Rashard and whichever of those guys you bring in.

And don't you think with all those scorers, that you basically take the ball out of Dwight's hands because all those guys want to score, too?

And I know Andre Miller can score. I just can't understand why he hasn't been a winner anywhere he has played except Denver -- where he had Camby and Melo and Nene and Kenyon Martin when they were healthy. You only saw him play in Denver. What was the problem in L.A.?

[Bensational]

[quote="lovehoops01"][/quote]

sure, they'll have to change, but only for short periods when Shaq's in. and the team probably realises that they're in need of a lineup that can offer a change of pace and can battle with the SA's, Utahs and Lakers of the league.

much the same way that the Magic should, and hopefully will have, a roster that's versatile enough to play both big and small.

as for Shaq, he'd know his role and what he needs to do to get another championship - play minimal minutes till the postseason and stay healthy till then.

[theTHIEF]

well as it is now we're damned if you do damned if you dont...we just have to make sure you make the right moves...im not saying adding any of those guys is the right thing...but again, if the deal comes up and its affordable, you have to do it...

as for Miller, he wouldnt be the prime focus here, Dwight/Hedo/Shard would, so i think it would work a lot better here because all we need is something better than what we have, if even slightly...Miller makes us that much better...and i am will to be a brand new car that he can get the ball to Dwight better than Nelson/Arroyo...

[Bensational]

And I know Andre Miller can score. I just can't understand why he hasn't been a winner anywhere he has played except Denver -- where he had Camby and Melo and Nene and Kenyon Martin when they were healthy. You only saw him play in Denver. What was the problem in L.A.?

probably the same thing that was the problem with Odom, Brand, Maggette and Dooling?

would you refuse any of those guys on your team as well?

as for Denver, you've got a point there. however i think Miller's game is best suited to working with shooters. in Cleveland, where he played arguably his best ball, he was surrounded by shooters which he found at the right times. they didn't have a winning record, but they didn't have much talent either.

[lovehoops01]

-= original quote snipped =-



i think Miller's game is best suited to working with shooters. in Cleveland, where he played arguably his best ball, he was surrounded by shooters which he found at the right times. they didn't have a winning record, but they didn't have much talent either.

This really doesn't do much to shore up your support for him. They didn't win.

As far as the Clippers go, Brand, Maggette and Odom all have won without Miller.

[Bensational]

This really doesn't do much to shore up your support for him. They didn't win.

that's why i said "they didn't win, but they didn't have much talent". it's just an example of Miller playing at his best and the environment he was in when he was.

TJ Ford never won with Milwaukee, doesn't make him a bad PG. Arenas never won with GSW, doesn't make him a bad PG. Jameer Nelson hadn't been a winner until last season, that didn't make him a bad PG. Hinrich took a couple seasons to get going, got going, and now stopped - he's still alright though. DWade's losing now - doesn't make him bad.

As far as the Clippers go, Brand, Maggette and Odom all have won without Miller.

And Miller has won without them: in Denver. Brand and Odom are both significantly better talents though, that's not in dispute. but Maggette wouldn't have won if he wasn't with Brand. Brand was the catalyst. Odom similarly had a young DWade and now Kobe. those odds are stacked in his favour. the moment Miller got his Kobe/DWade in Melo, he was shipped off not long after for Iverson.

Being a Magic fan, i don't think you can use the argument "they haven't won, so they're not talented/good enough" or else before last season you'd have to write off most of our team.

[lovehoops01]

But Andre Miller has played on FOUR teams and only has made it to the playoffs on one of them. He's the only one of them who has played on more than one team who has not made it to the playoffs with more than one team. And the one team that he did make the playoffs with considered him so unimportant to continuing to make the playoffs that it traded him and was willing to play with no point guard to make the deal.

Brand and Maggette only have been on two teams, and the Magic were starting over the only year Maggette was here. Dooling went to the Finals with the Heat and has made the playoffs with the Magic. Odom has been to the playoffs with the Lakers and the Heat.

[Nyce]

Arroyo, Auggie, & JJ for Haslem & Smush
Jameer, Garrity, Dooling, & draft pick for Miller & small filler (Carney?)

Miller/Parker/FA pickup
Turk/Evans/Bogans
Lewis/Turk/Evans
Haslem/Cook/Lewis
Dwight/Foyle/Warlock

[Bensational]

But Andre Miller has played on FOUR teams and only has made it to the playoffs on one of them. He's the only one of them who has played on more than one team who has not made it to the playoffs with more than one team. And the one team that he did make the playoffs with considered him so unimportant to continuing to make the playoffs that it traded him and was willing to play with no point guard to make the deal.

Brand and Maggette only have been on two teams, and the Magic were starting over the only year Maggette was here. Dooling went to the Finals with the Heat and has made the playoffs with the Magic. Odom has been to the playoffs with the Lakers and the Heat.

So unimportant? They traded him for Allen Iverson. It's not like he was traded for a bit player. Iverson's a franchise player. And the 76ers probably made the deal knowing that Miller's small contract would be easier to move in the future than KMart's white elephant, or Nene's unfulfilled potential.

I'd like to see Brand, Odom, Maggette or Dooling make the playoffs on the current 76ers team or Miller's original Cavs team. Or do you think that if you put Miller with the Lakers, Odom's Heat or Brand's winning Clippers team that Miller wouldn't have had that success?

Brand has played for multiple teams and only made the playoffs with one of them. actually, has he made the playoffs more than once? i can't even remember off the top of my head. Meanwhile, Brand is an absolute stud who any team would wet themselves to get a hold of.

Quentin Richardson is another player from that squad who's gone on to a whole lot of nothingness. He was successful in Phoenix briefly, then went to NY to die like all the other bloated contracts in the league.

There's probably a lot of players in the league who are good but haven't been on good teams or haven't been in the right system and hence haven't had the chance to be part of a winning team. doesn't make them any less talented or valuable to the right system.

[theTHIEF]

Magic Today = Playoffs
Magic with Andre Miller = 2nd round at least

book it...

[theTHIEF]

BTW ESPN radio just reported that Shaq is heading out to Phoenix and will take the physical for the Suns and if he passes the deal is a done deal...

wow....

[lovehoops01]

Elton Brand has been on two teams, not multiple. The Clippers and Bulls.

I know they traded Miller (and Evans) for AI. But AI isn't a point guard (regardless of his size), and the Nuggets didn't have one after they traded Miller. They had to add one.

Look, I can see I am not going to change your mind. I just would hate to bring in Andre Miller and become the fifth team he has played on and the fourth not to make the playoffs. Two teams is one thing. Four teams is a lot.

Most of these completed deals have involved a couple players. The deals people are proposing here are talking about moving four or five players in the middle of the season and sometimes doing that in two separate deals -- on a team that is 31-19. And many of you are talking about trading four or five guys who actually are seeing significant playing time, not guys sitting on their butts all season. Not only that, the team already has added two new players this season. To me, that is a recipe of a tailspin for the rest of the season because there is just too much adjustment. Imagine how many more roster adjustments Van Gundy would be making. It'll be the last day of the season, and he'll still be experimenting. Chemistry is not important at all. Just ask the Knicks.

Fine, though. 31-19 sucks. There's a reason every sports franchise lets their fans make all their deals for them. We obviously are smarter than everyone else. Make all the deals you want. Between everyone on this board, they have wanted to trade everyone but Dwight. Who's to say any of us is smarter than the other. Trade them all.

And here's the best part. Let's fire Otis and let SVG be the GM, too. That way, when a guy doesn't rotate to cover his man, Stan can just cut him on the spot. That should be very exciting because the Magic would have about 400 roster changes a season. No more of that waiting and wondering how much longer the guy would be stuck on the bench because Stan wouldn't play him. Also, it worked out great the summer that Gabe got tired of fighting with Doc and let Doc be GM for the summer. They drafted Ryan Humphrey and signed Juwan Howard and Tyronn Lue and cut Darrell Armstrong because he had to go so T-Mac could be the team leader. That 21-61 season was nice, too.

Then maybe you all will be happy.