ImageImageImageImageImage

Kidd blames Carter

Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO

BIG FURB
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,911
And1: 134
Joined: Feb 21, 2003

 

Post#61 » by BIG FURB » Wed Feb 6, 2008 4:35 am

S.I.C. GM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I wasnt talking about the cortisone shot. I was talking about needing surgery.

But thanks for the link.


You don't need cortisone shots if all you've got is a little boo boo SIC. If you used that mind of yours for anything besides creating great fiction as to why Vince is bad for this team you'd be able to deduce that clearly his ankle injury is more serious than you thought. The fact that vince has been able to produce like he has despite playing hurt should be commended, but of course he's instead villified.
S.I.C. GM
Veteran
Posts: 2,939
And1: 2
Joined: Jul 31, 2002

 

Post#62 » by S.I.C. GM » Wed Feb 6, 2008 2:29 pm

BIG FURB wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You don't need cortisone shots if all you've got is a little boo boo SIC. If you used that mind of yours for anything besides creating great fiction as to why Vince is bad for this team you'd be able to deduce that clearly his ankle injury is more serious than you thought. The fact that vince has been able to produce like he has despite playing hurt should be commended, but of course he's instead villified.


:rofl: :rofl:

BIG Buddy, WoW!!! If I took this personally, I would think you are insulting me. I guess that cortisone shot worked yesterday, too. I guess he has been taking cortisone shots his entire career. 10-26, 8 fta, 27 pts. Looks familiar.

[/b]
SIC
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#63 » by G_MoNeY » Wed Feb 6, 2008 3:14 pm

was it VC's fault for the loss yesterday? Point is SIC, regardless of the situation you ALWAYS put the blame on VC. The cortizone shot was given a few days ago, VC said himself it's the best his ankle has felt all year long. I'll try to work up the post game interview video and show you what RJ said if you didn't catch it. If RJ makes a comment like that, he can probably relate and surgery is likely needed was my point.

Seems to me, Kidd needed to play some defense yesterday. Fisher lit him up, thus the reason we lost. You can't let Fisher go for, what, 26 points? On the other side of that, Kidd played Kobe a few times on D, but VC had the job most of the night, how did he do there? Again, no credit.
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#64 » by G_MoNeY » Wed Feb 6, 2008 3:16 pm

An ailing ankle, one that required a shot last week, is improving.

"Felt better. Just doing the work, proper treatments, whatever. It's been feeling better," said Carter whose 27 points in a 105-90 loss to the Lakers was his second highest total in 14 games.

EFF
Junior
Posts: 391
And1: 0
Joined: Feb 01, 2008

 

Post#65 » by EFF » Wed Feb 6, 2008 4:31 pm

Carter's play was encouraging...relieving even.
Statistically not his best but effective, and he played D! Great D actually on Kobe. And I loved seeing him catch and go immediately cuz it worked. Nifty.

True about D Fish though. Kidd Kidd Kidd...and Vladimir went off too. Our reaction to the perimeter is the worst.
S.I.C. GM
Veteran
Posts: 2,939
And1: 2
Joined: Jul 31, 2002

 

Post#66 » by S.I.C. GM » Wed Feb 6, 2008 6:15 pm

G_MoNeY wrote: was it VC's fault for the loss yesterday? Point is SIC, regardless of the situation you ALWAYS put the blame on VC. The cortizone shot was given a few days ago, VC said himself it's the best his ankle has felt all year long. I'll try to work up the post game interview video and show you what RJ said if you didn't catch it. If RJ makes a comment like that, he can probably relate and surgery is likely needed was my point.

Seems to me, Kidd needed to play some defense yesterday. Fisher lit him up, thus the reason we lost. You can't let Fisher go for, what, 26 points? On the other side of that, Kidd played Kobe a few times on D, but VC had the job most of the night, how did he do there? Again, no credit.



Like I have said before, one game isnt going to change how I see things. I am not a VC fan like some of you. I see no change. I thought he was working on his shooting this summer. Do u guys see a change? Oh I forgot he is hurt.

Yeah Some say He gets pumped to play Kobe. But what about the getting pumped every game.

Second point, so you are now saying Kidd defense sucks because Fisher (9-18; 4 of those were 3pt.) had a good game. Kidd has been a good defender and has shown us this year he can still defend most of the premiere SGs. VC has a good defensive game we still lose. VC takes 26 shots to Kobe 13. :rofl: :rofl: Oh! Oh! VC is turning into Artest. Shutting down SUPERSTARS.
SIC
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#67 » by G_MoNeY » Wed Feb 6, 2008 7:41 pm

Kobe also had 6 points. VC NEEDS to shoot or have the ball in his hands that amount of time not just because he scores but because he makes plays better than RJ. He's a better passer, seriously, I want you guys to watch when RJ touches the ball. The ball DIES in his hands, at least when VC touches it (Frank to blame for the same damn play every time, high pick and roll or ISO) he's turning the corner and LOOKING for an open man. RJ has his mind set on the basket and 80% of the time he does not look to pass.

VC was on Kobe most of the night. Kidd had him on some occasional switches, but Fisher is Kidds man, especially last night, do you not see that? VC had a good defensive game and we still lose? Like it's VC's fault. No production from the bench, except Boki last night. RJ was terrible. Wright is awful. I blame management for those problems though, we need a shooter.

I've yet to see you defend the whole ankle situation. RJ said it, cortizone shot was given, Frank has admitted it. VC has said it's bothering him. What more do you need? Anyone who has watched the games can tell VC isn't 100%

Let's also make something else clear, I am a VC fan, but I'm also a Nets/NBA fan. Just because I own a site dedicated to VC, doesn't mean I think he does no wrong. He's being played out as a scapegoat on a bum ankle, and is still near his career averages. Do I think he needs to be more consistent in his attacks? Yes. Do I think he's an underacheiver? NO. top 5 scorer in active players STILL, no credit. It's hard to go out and drop 25 a night in the NBA, yet he still manages to get it done, on 1 ankle or two.
S.I.C. GM
Veteran
Posts: 2,939
And1: 2
Joined: Jul 31, 2002

 

Post#68 » by S.I.C. GM » Wed Feb 6, 2008 9:26 pm

G_MoNeY wrote:Kobe also had 6 points. VC NEEDS to shoot or have the ball in his hands that amount of time not just because he scores but because he makes plays better than RJ. He's a better passer, seriously, I want you guys to watch when RJ touches the ball. The ball DIES in his hands, at least when VC touches it (Frank to blame for the same damn play every time, high pick and roll or ISO) he's turning the corner and LOOKING for an open man. RJ has his mind set on the basket and 80% of the time he does not look to pass.


Clearly we are watching different games. First, you say VC turns the corner. I dont think so. VC is effficient only when he is going towards the basket, but on most of the Pick and Rolls VC goes off further away from the basket. As far as RJ, his main role isnt to pass the ball. It is to receive it and try to score. If he double or triple teamed he should pass it. If you are saying he has never done that, you need to go see those games that you claimed VC was clutch. You should also watch some games where he attacked that basket late in games, breaking the defense and kicking it out. I dont care if RJ doesnt pass the ball. Right now he is a more efficient score then VC. Taking less shots gettting more FT. If VC can get into the same habit, the Nets will be better. Another thing how many asts did VC have yesterday. Also how many touches did Boone and Swill have. I realized other people need to get involved for the Nets to win. Boone and Swill needs more fga. They both need to take more shots.

G_Money wrote:Let's also make something else clear, I am a VC fan, but I'm also a Nets/NBA fan. Just because I own a site dedicated to VC, doesn't mean I think he does no wrong. He's being played out as a scapegoat on a bum ankle, and is still near his career averages. Do I think he needs to be more consistent in his attacks? Yes. Do I think he's an underacheiver? NO. top 5 scorer in active players STILL, no credit. It's hard to go out and drop 25 a night in the NBA, yet he still manages to get it done, on 1 ankle or two.


No shock there G. Please tell me your 5 top scorers. Please. I dont see how you can put VC there.
SIC
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#69 » by G_MoNeY » Wed Feb 6, 2008 10:28 pm

Image

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... ctive.html


Why would I lie? Trust me, I back up my comments. He was 3rd but Kobe passed him this year.

About the "turning the corner" comment. Usually when VC is on a high pick and roll, the opponent who steps out usually gets called for a foul or VC turns the corner before they can get there. Either way, on that type of play, VC is probing the middle of the lane and looking to score or finding an open man on the wing or in the corner.

About the "RJ passing" comment -- I didn't say he EVER passes, I'm just saying he doesnt' do it as well as VC. He should look to PASS more and NOT look to score as much. More often than not, especially THIS year, it's a turnover or empty possession.

And who are you kidding about the Boone and Williams comment. VC is the one who opens up the court for BOTH of them and is usually the person who FINDS BOTH of them on most plays. How often do you see anyone else get credited an assist to either of those guys unless it's Kidd on an alley-oop or fast break opportunity. When it's within a half-court set, it's almost always VC. Neither of them, at this point in their career, have plays specifically ran for them on the block because that's not what they're good at. Rebounding, defense, shot blocking and garbage points is their game. You bring in a dominant low-post scorer, then yes I agree, but not with either of them. We have no inside-outside game, which is what we desperately lack. Part of that blame goes on Frank, but I'll put most of THAT blame on Thorn.
User avatar
jerseyjac
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 10,956
And1: 34
Joined: Nov 01, 2001

 

Post#70 » by jerseyjac » Thu Feb 7, 2008 2:33 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



:rofl: :rofl:

BIG Buddy, WoW!!! If I took this personally, I would think you are insulting me. I guess that cortisone shot worked yesterday, too. I guess he has been taking cortisone shots his entire career. 10-26, 8 fta, 27 pts. Looks familiar.

[/b]


we should take a vote to who is the biggest VC hater, SIC, Hotshots...who else do you want to throw in there...u know, your lucky I like you SIC :wink: ...
S.I.C. GM
Veteran
Posts: 2,939
And1: 2
Joined: Jul 31, 2002

 

Post#71 » by S.I.C. GM » Thu Feb 7, 2008 5:02 pm

jerseyjac wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



we should take a vote to who is the biggest VC hater, SIC, Hotshots...who else do you want to throw in there...u know, your lucky I like you SIC :wink: ...


Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jac.

You know I would be harder on VC. Dont want you to give out too many warnings. I have also been light on the bashing, because with enetric not on, it isnt as fun as it used to be. These VC lovers are so predictable it is sad.
SIC
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#72 » by G_MoNeY » Thu Feb 7, 2008 5:30 pm

Image

Image

Maybe we should re-sign Billy Thomas, LOL.

Second screenshot is misleading, at least on Thomas and Magloire. Think we all should agree that Magloire should be getting more PT. Who's the next highest after Marcus Williams and the two mentioned above?

Image

SG is the best production, and we ALL know it's not coming from Antoine Wright. ROFL

Is all this just a coincidence, or that VC "lovers" are sticking up for him. These stats as well as many others on 82games show who is being the most productive, even in a "bad" year by VC. Those who watch the games, like I've done for EVERY game this year, can see how the offense is much better off when VC touches it. Last night was another example where RJ just held the ball and was forced into many turnovers because of his lack of vision passing and his lack of ball handling skills.

My whole point in all of this is just to show those who don't understand my logic; RJ is easier to replace than VC. You provide Kidd and VC with a legitmate big man and a new coach, and we have a shot to contend.
User avatar
jerseyjac
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 10,956
And1: 34
Joined: Nov 01, 2001

 

Post#73 » by jerseyjac » Thu Feb 7, 2008 11:04 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Thanks for the vote of confidence, Jac.

You know I would be harder on VC. Dont want you to give out too many warnings. I have also been light on the bashing, because with enetric not on, it isnt as fun as it used to be. These VC lovers are so predictable it is sad.


you've been killing us quietly... :wink:
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#74 » by G_MoNeY » Fri Feb 8, 2008 2:08 am

I'll end my point with this...

Update: Nets president Rod Thorn is not ruling summer surgery on Carter's sore right ankle, the Newark Star-Ledger reports. "We don't anticipate that," Thorn said, "but at some point in time it could be. ... Hopefully it will last through the end of the year and we'll take a look at it when he has some time off. It's been bothering him for a long time, but it's a lot better now."

Recommendation: Carter's teammates and the Nets front office have come to his defense after Lakers coach Phil Jackson said Carter was not playing with the fire he once was. Apparently, Carter has been playing on a sore ankle since November. "We've been around him and we know what the real story is," Bostjan Nachbar said. "I think most of the problems has been with his ankle. He hasn't had that lift, that explosiveness that he had before. So I think once we as a team start playing better and once he starts getting more comfortable, I think you'll see the real Vince because he's still got a lot of basketball left in him." Carter had 18 points on 6-of-14 shooting (two 3-pointers) in 40 minutes in Wednesday night's loss to Orlando.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... pe=fantasy


Enough proof for you SIC?
User avatar
Birth of the Cool
Analyst
Posts: 3,150
And1: 1,560
Joined: Dec 23, 2005

 

Post#75 » by Birth of the Cool » Fri Feb 8, 2008 3:06 am

heh 7 pages started from a Toronto troll account.

To G Money's last post & one of my recent posts on the Raps Board (Raps fan also) why is it Thorn / RJ / L.Frank / Boki are the one's defending VC ?

Kidd said the Nets let go of the rope too early but maybe it's because they are following his lead. When VC came to the Nets everyone incl. Kidd said it would be good for him since he (VC) doesn't like to be the leader and Kidd can share that burden/blame but all I see is VC being a magnet that deflects blame away from Kidd.

It's no secret VC is NOT a leader, he is a follower which is a shame given his talent but that's one his his flaws. VC was most comfortable in T.O. when AD & Oakley were the on court & lockeroom mouthpieces. So it's no surprise that VC's failure to be a leader with the Nets is hurting this team but what is surprising is Kidd's failure also. It seems every year Kidd dismisses his teammates (hints at preferring to play elsewhere) , his messy divorce was media fodder , his "migrane" which hardly anyone believes, his not talking (taking heat) to the media / his lackluster effort sometimes, from all accounts he is also not a vocal leader on the court or in the lockeroom....

...so RJ has to be the guy who tries to shoulder some of the blame, RJ has to be the guy that takes the tough questions from the media, RJ is the most vocal guy on the court & in the locker room...props to RJ for taking up this leadership role which VC/Kidd left in a vacuum but it's not right for him to have to do this. When your two most talented players are not being leaders it's no surprise that when things go bad they go really bad.
G_MoNeY
Veteran
Posts: 2,613
And1: 0
Joined: Sep 19, 2004

 

Post#76 » by G_MoNeY » Fri Feb 8, 2008 9:40 pm

User avatar
dacher
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,729
And1: 1
Joined: Jun 20, 2003

 

Post#77 » by dacher » Sat Feb 9, 2008 2:25 am

Birth of the Cool wrote:Kidd said the Nets let go of the rope too early but maybe it's because they are following his lead. When VC came to the Nets everyone incl. Kidd said it would be good for him since he (VC) doesn't like to be the leader and Kidd can share that burden/blame but all I see is VC being a magnet that deflects blame away from Kidd.



No way. Kidd's failure? He's the one pushing the fast breaks. He's the one fighting for the rebounds. He's getting the ball to the most open shooter. He plays very hard, 38 minutes a game, so the games are winnable in 4th quarter, but the team comes away with nothing. Kidd is no longer the closer he was in 2000-2003. That's when the VC, RJ and everyone else are suppose to give the rope the final pull over the brink. A leader can lead the donkey to water, but he can't make the donkey drink.

Return to Brooklyn Nets