Everyone overrates their own players. Blazers aren't overpaying -- they're getting back the best player!
Devin Harris
Brandon Roy
James Jones
Lamarcus Aldridge
Greg Oden
That's title team in a couple years!!!
Travis Outlaw is imporiving, but not an all-star or anything -- or even a starter right now! Frye peaked as a rookies, shows some promise...Jarrett Jack is above average...
Kidd will give Dallas a good shot at it this year, but has declined and will start to show it next year more than likely...
Portland gets the best of this freaking deal!!! Let's just trade with Dallas for Devin! Do it Rod!
Rumor: 3-way deal with Dallas and Portland
Moderators: Rich Rane, NyCeEvO
-
FGump
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,050
- And1: 0
- Joined: Aug 14, 2004
I know you guys are getting all excited about these stories in the NJ papers, but in Dallas they are laughing at them as being wildly homeristic and not even remotely true.
The Mavs are not going to give half their ELITE team for one aging PG. I know he is revered in NJ but if you really think this has even a microscopic chance of going down, you're fooling yourself.
This has all the feel of some lazy NJ writer who has a column to fill, and a slow news day to work with. And it's just bizarre because it's so out of whack to what "value" we see Kidd having. He didn't suddenly morph into a 26 year old overnight, but from these supposed trade "talks" they want to make us think are occurring, it sounds like some writers think he has.
We know why NJ wouldn't kill these rumors. They hope it raises the stakes for whoever wants to bid, and it sure does excite their fans, doesn't it? So who knows, they might even be fueling the story a bit to try to keep it going.
But none of this is going on. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are getting sucked in if you think this is real.
When Avery Johnson was asked what he's told the team about this stuff, he said bluntly: ""We're not involved. Anybody has a right to throw out names. That's a part of speculating. But we're not involved. That's all I can tell them. We like our team and we're moving forward with our team."
The Mavs are not going to give half their ELITE team for one aging PG. I know he is revered in NJ but if you really think this has even a microscopic chance of going down, you're fooling yourself.
This has all the feel of some lazy NJ writer who has a column to fill, and a slow news day to work with. And it's just bizarre because it's so out of whack to what "value" we see Kidd having. He didn't suddenly morph into a 26 year old overnight, but from these supposed trade "talks" they want to make us think are occurring, it sounds like some writers think he has.
We know why NJ wouldn't kill these rumors. They hope it raises the stakes for whoever wants to bid, and it sure does excite their fans, doesn't it? So who knows, they might even be fueling the story a bit to try to keep it going.
But none of this is going on. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are getting sucked in if you think this is real.
When Avery Johnson was asked what he's told the team about this stuff, he said bluntly: ""We're not involved. Anybody has a right to throw out names. That's a part of speculating. But we're not involved. That's all I can tell them. We like our team and we're moving forward with our team."
-
jerseyjac
- Retired Mod
- Posts: 10,956
- And1: 34
- Joined: Nov 01, 2001
FGump wrote:I know you guys are getting all excited about these stories in the NJ papers, but in Dallas they are laughing at them as being wildly homeristic and not even remotely true.
The Mavs are not going to give half their ELITE team for one aging PG. I know he is revered in NJ but if you really think this has even a microscopic chance of going down, you're fooling yourself.
This has all the feel of some lazy NJ writer who has a column to fill, and a slow news day to work with. And it's just bizarre because it's so out of whack to what "value" we see Kidd having. He didn't suddenly morph into a 26 year old overnight, but from these supposed trade "talks" they want to make us think are occurring, it sounds like some writers think he has.
We know why NJ wouldn't kill these rumors. They hope it raises the stakes for whoever wants to bid, and it sure does excite their fans, doesn't it? So who knows, they might even be fueling the story a bit to try to keep it going.
But none of this is going on. I hate to burst your bubble, but you are getting sucked in if you think this is real.
When Avery Johnson was asked what he's told the team about this stuff, he said bluntly: ""We're not involved. Anybody has a right to throw out names. That's a part of speculating. But we're not involved. That's all I can tell them. We like our team and we're moving forward with our team."
I obviously agree with you...what do you think is the best the Nets could get from a trade before the trade deadline, by a contending team trying to make a push...and if not this season, could you see a NBA draft/summer trade before his contract expires and w/ who...
I cant stomache watching Kidd walk when his contract is up...
-
FGump
- Lead Assistant
- Posts: 5,050
- And1: 0
- Joined: Aug 14, 2004
JJ, in my opinion it depends on what Thorn decides he wants to do, because I don't think he'll get everything he wants no matter when he does it.
He has problems here. The clock is ticking on him in several ways, and Kidd has obviously run out of patience. But he is handicapped by the size of that contract. It's hard for a team to match that and not send Thorn a bad contract or two. (If I send you 20M in decent contracts, you have stripped my team of a huge pile of talent for a 34-year old who I have to assume has a very short window left.)
If a team gives expirings for half or 2/3 of Kidd's contract, that is a HUGE value given the tax constraints for most GMs. I don't think you get that plus a pile of talent.
Or, if you got one really good young player, you might have to take 2 or 3 contracts you really don't want, none of which are expiring.
For example, you might could get a player the caliber of Devin Harris (but I don't think Dallas would offer Harris), but in my opinion you'd only get one, you'd get no cap relief, you might end up with a blah player on a moderately yuck deal as part of the filler, and maybe no picks.
If he is willing to take some middle level talent, he might be able to get a player like that as someone to help longer term, plus some cap relief, and a pick. Not that this is THE PLAYER, but as an example a player like Jason Terry who is solid but not a star and is in his late 20s and is over MLE but not anywhere close to a Kidd-sized deal.
If you want player(s) back to somehow add up to Kidd in his prime, or even with the some sort of expectation that they have that potential, it won't happen in my opinion, no matter when. He's just too old and his contract too big to pull that sort of return imo.
If Thorn wants cap relief, he has to go for it now because it makes no sense in the summer. If he wants talent, summer is probably a bit easier, because it will be hard to move that much salary midseason - it wrecks the roster of whoever you trade with.
He has problems here. The clock is ticking on him in several ways, and Kidd has obviously run out of patience. But he is handicapped by the size of that contract. It's hard for a team to match that and not send Thorn a bad contract or two. (If I send you 20M in decent contracts, you have stripped my team of a huge pile of talent for a 34-year old who I have to assume has a very short window left.)
If a team gives expirings for half or 2/3 of Kidd's contract, that is a HUGE value given the tax constraints for most GMs. I don't think you get that plus a pile of talent.
Or, if you got one really good young player, you might have to take 2 or 3 contracts you really don't want, none of which are expiring.
For example, you might could get a player the caliber of Devin Harris (but I don't think Dallas would offer Harris), but in my opinion you'd only get one, you'd get no cap relief, you might end up with a blah player on a moderately yuck deal as part of the filler, and maybe no picks.
If he is willing to take some middle level talent, he might be able to get a player like that as someone to help longer term, plus some cap relief, and a pick. Not that this is THE PLAYER, but as an example a player like Jason Terry who is solid but not a star and is in his late 20s and is over MLE but not anywhere close to a Kidd-sized deal.
If you want player(s) back to somehow add up to Kidd in his prime, or even with the some sort of expectation that they have that potential, it won't happen in my opinion, no matter when. He's just too old and his contract too big to pull that sort of return imo.
If Thorn wants cap relief, he has to go for it now because it makes no sense in the summer. If he wants talent, summer is probably a bit easier, because it will be hard to move that much salary midseason - it wrecks the roster of whoever you trade with.
-
HotShots
- Senior
- Posts: 510
- And1: 9
- Joined: Aug 24, 2006
So the deal on the table that you've been reading about would send Kidd, Malik Allen and Darrell Armstrong to the Mavericks along with Sergio Rodriguez from Portland. The Blazers would get Harris, Brandon Bass and Nick Fazekas from Dallas. And the Nets wind up with Jarrett Jack, Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye, Devean George, DeSagana Diop, Jerry Stackhouse, two first round picks and cash to buy out Stackhouse and pay for George's trade kicker.
http://njmg.typepad.com/zzone/2008/01/i ... -shou.html
Portland has to make a move. Or else they start to drop players for nothing next year.
Credits
2008 second round draft pick from New York
New York's own 2008 2nd round pick to Portland [New York - Portland, 6/28/2007]
2008 second round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' own 2008 2nd round pick to Portland [Memphis - Portland, 6/28/2006]
2008 second round draft pick from Indiana
The less favorable of Indiana's own 2008 2nd round pick or Phoenix's own 2008 2nd round pick to Portland [Indiana - Portland, 6/28/2006]
Plus there own 1st & 2nd round pick. Then you have all the players waiting to join the team.
Doron Sheffer
Federico Kammerichs
Joel Freeland
Marcelo Nicola
Nedzad Sinanovic
Petteri Koponen
Rudy Fernandez
They have to start moving players or else they lose them. So they are looking to trade some for an upgrade. Harris is a solid pg. I think he would work out great for them. He is real quick.
-
SPuL
- Senior
- Posts: 581
- And1: 0
- Joined: Apr 27, 2004
- Location: Bolton, MA
I'm guessing by taking on all these young players for Kidd NJ is embracing the idea of a rebuild?
Most likely VC will be on his way out soon after Kidd for expirings & youth/picks..
What would you think of Kwame, Crittenton & a 1st for VC?
It would be tough for Outlaw to find minutes with both VC & RJeff in town so I see no way you guys hold onto Vince.. Critt is still a project but has all star potential in alot of peoples opinions.. The financial savings are huge & although the 1st would be late it could surely be packaged to move up..
Thoughts?
Most likely VC will be on his way out soon after Kidd for expirings & youth/picks..
What would you think of Kwame, Crittenton & a 1st for VC?
It would be tough for Outlaw to find minutes with both VC & RJeff in town so I see no way you guys hold onto Vince.. Critt is still a project but has all star potential in alot of peoples opinions.. The financial savings are huge & although the 1st would be late it could surely be packaged to move up..
Thoughts?
-
Pugsley_2491
- Bench Warmer
- Posts: 1,253
- And1: 3
- Joined: Aug 29, 2007
SPuL wrote:I'm guessing by taking on all these young players for Kidd NJ is embracing the idea of a rebuild?
Most likely VC will be on his way out soon after Kidd for expirings & youth/picks..
What would you think of Kwame, Crittenton & a 1st for VC?
It would be tough for Outlaw to find minutes with both VC & RJeff in town so I see no way you guys hold onto Vince.. Critt is still a project but has all star potential in alot of peoples opinions.. The financial savings are huge & although the 1st would be late it could surely be packaged to move up..
Thoughts?
sure, i'll do that vc trade. idk if the lakers would, they'd prolly want jefferson over vc though but i'd rather trade vc for that package. this gives us sooooo much more cap flexibility instead of vince's crappy contract plus we get a wildcard in critt.
-
AZ BLAZER
- Starter
- Posts: 2,359
- And1: 0
- Joined: Jul 09, 2005
- Location: TEMPE, AZ.
HotShots wrote:So the deal on the table that you've been reading about would send Kidd, Malik Allen and Darrell Armstrong to the Mavericks along with Sergio Rodriguez from Portland. The Blazers would get Harris, Brandon Bass and Nick Fazekas from Dallas. And the Nets wind up with Jarrett Jack, Travis Outlaw, Channing Frye, Devean George, DeSagana Diop, Jerry Stackhouse, two first round picks and cash to buy out Stackhouse and pay for George's trade kicker.
http://njmg.typepad.com/zzone/2008/01/i ... -shou.html
Portland has to make a move. Or else they start to drop players for nothing next year.
Credits
2008 second round draft pick from New York
New York's own 2008 2nd round pick to Portland [New York - Portland, 6/28/2007]
2008 second round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' own 2008 2nd round pick to Portland [Memphis - Portland, 6/28/2006]
2008 second round draft pick from Indiana
The less favorable of Indiana's own 2008 2nd round pick or Phoenix's own 2008 2nd round pick to Portland [Indiana - Portland, 6/28/2006]
Plus there own 1st & 2nd round pick. Then you have all the players waiting to join the team.
Doron Sheffer
Federico Kammerichs
Joel Freeland
Marcelo Nicola
Nedzad Sinanovic
Petteri Koponen
Rudy Fernandez
They have to start moving players or else they lose them. So they are looking to trade some for an upgrade. Harris is a solid pg. I think he would work out great for them. He is real quick.
The Euro's I put in bold are the only players Portland is developing. Fernandez is the only one that will come over next season. The ones not in bold will never be NBA players, and at least one of those guys is now in his 30's.
Portland very well may have to make a move or two, but that does not mean that they start giving away players/picks by over paying for another player. Going into training camp this year Portlands GM said there would not be any deals as they wanted to see what they had, who was still developing and who worked well together.
I am sure that our GM will be very active this off season. We have those picks you have pointed out that will not have a chance of making our roster. Those picks will be traded for future picks, included in trades or utilized by drafting and stashing Euro's like San Antonio has done. Portland will also have the $12+ mil expiring contract of Raef to use in a big deal if such a deal arose. The one thing Portland does not have to do is jump the gun or panic.
-
SPuL
- Senior
- Posts: 581
- And1: 0
- Joined: Apr 27, 2004
- Location: Bolton, MA
Looks like I had the right package.. But the wrong player in return LOL.Pugsley_2491 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
sure, i'll do that vc trade. idk if the lakers would, they'd prolly want jefferson over vc though but i'd rather trade vc for that package. this gives us sooooo much more cap flexibility instead of vince's crappy contract plus we get a wildcard in critt.
It's good to be a laker fan..
-
netsforever
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,714
- And1: 26
- Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Our only guideline for a Kidd trade should be no long term contracts. Anything over two years is pointless, as Kidd is off the books at the end of next season regardless.
That being said... if a guy like Devin Harris or Jarret Jack were available, it might be worth taking back a salary in addition.
Anyone consider the Bobcats as the 3rd team in a threeway with Dallas?
That being said... if a guy like Devin Harris or Jarret Jack were available, it might be worth taking back a salary in addition.
Anyone consider the Bobcats as the 3rd team in a threeway with Dallas?
-
G_MoNeY
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,613
- And1: 0
- Joined: Sep 19, 2004
dacher wrote:saw NBA columnist on ESPN who said
Trailblazers killed the trade, and have decided to play out the season with their young'uns.
Dallas is still interested in Kidd and are still searching for another 3rd team, but no takers so far.
makes sense to me. Portland has promising young talent with Outlaw and Jack. Either Jack is starting now to showcase his talents in a trade, or they are seriously considering riding out the season.