Hinrich/Deng/Gordon vs Bosh/Calderon

[The Letter V]

-= original quote snipped =-



Nah I was just thinking he might want to develop a post game that is comparable to Carter's, since his game down low is significantly worse than Carter's right now...

Yeah, right! That's gotta be a joke... Carter's post game is better than Bosh's.... speechless.

But you're right, Bosh's style of game is clearly not that of a 1st option...but here's some numbers you might want to look at:

Bosh:

Shot Att.
Jump - 56%
Close - 31%
Dunk - 9%
Tips - 3%
Inside - 44%

Kevin Garnett:

Shot Att.
Jump - 75%
Close - 17%
Dunk - 7%
Tips - 1%
Inside - 25%


Tim Duncan

Shot Att.
Jump - 56%
Close - 37%
Dunk - 4%
Tips - 3%
Inside - 44%



....but I'm sure you're right.

[NetsForce]

The numbers on 82games are misleading, the majority of Bosh's "close range" shots come as a result of his drives to the basket. Bosh doesn't post up to score in close he takes his man off the dribble and goes to the cup for a layup / dunk attempt.

Also while KG is more of a perimeter power forward many of his shots from either block end with his patented fade-away jumper, so does 82games count those as close shots or jumpers?

Judging from their numbers it seems like those close shots are counted as jumpers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the reason why I'm not all over Bosh's nuts is because he's a power forward with the game of a small forward. Bosh's tricks work in the regular season but come playoff time his lack of a post game and inability to draw legitimate double teams will be exposed.

[positivetension]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the reason why I'm not all over Bosh's nuts is because he's a power forward with the game of a small forward. Bosh's tricks work in the regular season but come playoff time his lack of a post game and inability to draw legitimate double teams will be exposed.

I don't think a sample of one is good enough to come to that conclusion. He was pretty awful last year, but I need more than one playoff series to call him just a regular season guy.

[The Letter V]

The numbers on 82games are misleading, the majority of Bosh's "close range" shots come as a result of his drives to the basket. Bosh doesn't post up to score in close he takes his man off the dribble and goes to the cup for a layup / dunk attempt.

Yea, Bosh primarily faces up, but to say he doesn't post up at all is false.

Also while KG is more of a perimeter power forward many of his shots from either block end with his patented fade-away jumper, so does 82games count those as close shots or jumpers?

So it's ok to post your man up 10 feet out and shoot a fadeaway, but it's not ok to stutter fake, step back and shoot a jumper from that same spot?

Judging from their numbers it seems like those close shots are counted as jumpers.

Well look at their inside shot attempts.
Bosh: 44%
Garnett: 25%

It's moreso the proximity that matters than the shot type.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the reason why I'm not all over Bosh's nuts is because he's a power forward with the game of a small forward. Bosh's tricks work in the regular season but come playoff time his lack of a post game and inability to draw legitimate double teams will be exposed.

So you're making this conclusion based on the one and only playoff series he played in, against a team for whatever reason he hasn't had much success against anyways? And inability to draw double teams? IIRC there have only been a couple of games all season where the other team has absolutely refused to double Bosh, PHX was one of them. Bosh scored 40 that night. Other than that, Bosh sees doubles and triples everynight and is capable of handling them.

[T-Spot]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the reason why I'm not all over Bosh's nuts is because he's a power forward with the game of a small forward. Bosh's tricks work in the regular season but come playoff time his lack of a post game and inability to draw legitimate double teams will be exposed.

Inability to draw double teams? Unless a team wants Bosh to drop 30's all over them, Bosh is usually covered like white on rice (and sometimes he just drops 30 on them anyway because he's just that much of a pimp).

[NetsForce]

Bosh is positioned in the high post the majority of the time as a result the weak doubles he gets don't cause as great a benefit to his team.

It's a matter of spacing really. There is a great difference between being shown a weak double in the high post and having to be doubled hard in the post. If Bosh was closer to the basket when he's forced to give up the ball his teammates would have more space to operate with. As it is right now Bosh gets the ball in the high post is primarily played one-on-one and when shown a double is forced to initiate a harmless pass out to one of his teammates.

Also Bosh is not consistently triple teamed. The truth of the matter is that no player in the NBA is consistently triple teamed, not Kobe, not Lebron, definitely not Bosh... The one player who probably gets tripled the most is Dwight Howard, but even then I wouldn't say he is consistently triple teamed.

[The Letter V]

Yea that comment about his inability to draw double teams is way out there....

[NetsForce]

Double teams in the high post don't cause as much problems for defenses (in terms of recovering to open players) as double teams in the low post...

That's all I'm getting at.

[The Letter V]

Bosh is positioned in the high post the majority of the time as a result the weak doubles he gets don't cause as great a benefit to his team.

It's a matter of spacing really. There is a great difference between being shown a weak double in the high post and having to be doubled hard in the post. If Bosh was closer to the basket when he's forced to give up the ball his teammates would have more space to operate with. As it is right now Bosh gets the ball in the high post is primarily played one-on-one and when shown a double is forced to initiate a harmless pass out to one of his teammates.

Also Bosh is not consistently triple teamed. The truth of the matter is that no player in the NBA is consistently triple teamed, not Kobe, not Lebron, definitely not Bosh... The one player who probably gets tripled the most is Dwight Howard, but even then I wouldn't say he is consistently triple teamed.

The majority of Bosh's iso plays are run for him on the elbow 12 ft out, or the baseline 10 ft out. He isn't usually getting the ball 17 ft away from the basket, unless the play calls for him to shoot it.

...and almost all of the doubles Bosh sees, come from the weakside, never the strongside....so it doesn't matter how deep he is, because the defense isn't going to leave our shooters on the perimeter that are feeding Bosh. We have to swing the ball out from the double to the corners to the open man to exploit the double.

To be honest, I'd much rather Bosh play more in the low post, but even so, that fact alone doesn't stop him from being a 1st tier player for the same reason it doesn't stop Garnett.

[One of Shemps Kids]

Honestly, NetsForce is currently the poster i'm happiest having on Ignore.

[JordansBulls]

Give me Bosh and Calderon