Will Horford take Yao off the dribble

[tontoz]

just one time the way Smith did to Big Z, forcing him out of the game?


Personally i don't think he should since Yao is known for his quick feet. I think Horford should try to back him down (Yao is 300 pounds) and shoot over him (7'5").

After all that has worked so well so far this season. why mess with success?

[Rip2137]

Oh the sarcasm.

Keep asking to have Horford take people off the dribble is just really ignoring the kids strengths with the ball. Yes...he can push the ball at full speed up court.

No, he isn't quick enough to face up and drive past ANYONE. The time it takes Horford to put the ball on the floor and make his move is just as slow as most other centers. He is a FAST center, not a QUICK one.

I know you want another skill set and ability to magically appear for him, but chances are, thats not going to happen.

[raleigh]

[tontoz]

(picture)

So do you still think Smith should be traded for Biedrins?

[tontoz]

Oh the sarcasm.

Keep asking to have Horford take people off the dribble is just really ignoring the kids strengths with the ball. Yes...he can push the ball at full speed up court.

No, he isn't quick enough to face up and drive past ANYONE. .

That is just plain ridiculous.

The fact is that Horford timed as fast as many small forwards at the combine.

In the sprint

Horford 3.37
Gay 3.32
Green 3.34
Crit 3.32

Shelden 3.59

It is also a fact that the one time he actually did try to take someone off the dribble, against Boozer, he was able to score easily. Boozer is quicker than most centers.

[evildallas]

EDIT - I wasn't thinking right. Tontoz is right. Our offensive rebounding isn't what I was thinking about. It is giving up offensive rebounds. Horford being away from the basket on offense doesn't hurt our offensive rebounds because of the athleticism of our forwards. What hurts is on the defensive end when Al steps out because our forwards aren't blocking out that well giving some opposing forwards big nights offensive rebounding against us (like last night). I know they are capable of blocking out they just seem to slip up a lot.

Al should be able to outrun Yao going down the floor and that could come into play if their 3 point shooters are cold. However, we still have to secure the rebound to allow Al to run the floor. We didn't do a good job of that last night against Cleveland (they had 15 Off. Rebs) so it's easier to say we have that advantage than to exploit it.

[tontoz]

I remember several other games this year when Al was positioned away from the block to negate a big and we've been slaughtered rebounding.

We are and have been one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the league. Currently we rank 5th in offensive rebounding ratio. Our rebounding problems are on the defensive end. Where we postition Horford on offense has nothing to do with defensive rebounding.

Horford is already catching the ball a lot in the high post. He just doesn't do anything with it.

[Rip2137]

Oh the sarcasm.

Keep asking to have Horford take people off the dribble is just really ignoring the kids strengths with the ball. Yes...he can push the ball at full speed up court.

No, he isn't quick enough to face up and drive past ANYONE. .

That is just plain ridiculous.

The fact is that Horford timed as fast as many small forwards at the combine.

In the sprint

Horford 3.37
Gay 3.32
Green 3.34
Crit 3.32

Shelden 3.59

It is also a fact that the one time he actually did try to take someone off the dribble, against Boozer, he was able to score easily. Boozer is quicker than most centers.

A: Sprinting has nothing to do with taking someone of the dribble. Again, Horford is FAST. That is what sprint speeds give you. We are talking the difference of Barry Sanders and Deangleo Hall here. Hall could probably outrun him in a foot race, but Barry is thousand times quicker.

His off the dribble step is not quick whatsoever.

And now you are forgeting what really happened in that Utah game.

He scored on the block with his back to the basket against Boozer using his strength. He wasn't taking him off the dribble.

[raleigh]

-= original quote snipped =-



So do you still think Smith should be traded for Biedrins?

Never did.

[tontoz]

-= original quote snipped =-



Never did.

Oh really.When the subject came up you said

I would do this trade yesterday, but that's just me.

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showfl ... art=1&vc=1

[BMF Jet Jaguar]

^owned

[raleigh]

GS would trade Andris Biedrins for Smoove straight up. We wanted a future first rounder with some lottery protection throw in and they balked.

^Owned back.

And it should be noted that Smith himself admitted to playing selfish basketball AFTER this trade thread came out on the 'Squawk. A selfish Josh Smith is not worth as much as Biedrins + 1st rounder. Smarter, patient Josh Smith is certainly a GREAT asset.

I also said this, which you ignored, of course, because it doesn't fit your Diesel-agenda:

If Smith did that with consistency, no one would ever consider trading him.

The "that" I'm referring to is "beat[ing] player[s] off the dribble and tak[ing] it to the hole."

Guess what skill Smith has finally shown capable of exhibiting with consistency in past few months. Yep, that's right - "beating players off the dribble and taking it to the hole."

Guess what? Virtually no one is considering trading him.

It's amazing what an agenda-less opinion can prove.

[HoopsGuru25]

mrh your 2nd point is true..Smith was struggling pretty bad at the time and has played much better. However you are backtracking on the 1st point. No one in that entire thread was talking about the protected 1st round pick because that wasn't even offered(supposedly). The trade being discussed was Smith for Biedrins straight up. That is pretty similar to Harry10 saying Yi/Wright would start at center their rookie years(let's not forget that Conley could fall to 11 because no teams in the top 10 needed pg's) or him saying that Shelden was better than Horford and backtracking when being called on it.

[tontoz]

Guess what skill Smith has finally shown capable of exhibiting with consistency in past few months.

Did he just start doing it this year? No. He was doing it last year as well.

but you forgot about that. He has a bad start and you are ready to ship him out.

Speaking of agenda's your company man agenda has been consistently comical. If BK went out to midcourt and dropped his pants you would say it was a good marketing move. You make excuses for everything he does.

My "agenda" with Horford is no different than what you were saying about Smith. You wanted him to stop jacking up 3s like he was Rashard. By the same token I want Hoford to stop playing like Eddy Curry. He isn't 300 pounds and won't be able to back guys down and score consistently.

there is NO REASON for him not to try to beat slower guys like Big Z off the dribble. NONE. The fact is Horford never tries to take anyone off the dribble no matter how slow they are. But if i bring it up i have an agenda.

But it is OK for you to criticize Smiths play and advocate trading him. nothing wrong with that.

I have been absolutely right about Horford so far. I said when he was drafted that i was ok with him playing 15 minutes at center but he simply isn't a full time center because he is too small.

Woodson, Sekou, Horford and every single opposing announcer has agreed with me.

I also said some of the comparisons people were making (Amare, Boozer, Brand, Zo) based on size were completely ridiclous because those guys were proven scorers. Horford averaged 13 ppg in college and is averaging 9 ppg now. Zo was 20/10 his rookie year with over 3 blocks per game.

If i had said over the summer that Horford would be only averaging 9 ppg this year you would have been criticizing me for it just like you are doing now.

As far as whether or not Horford/Acie is a better combo than Conley/Stuckey that remains to be seen. It depends a lot more on Acie than Horford which you can't seem to grasp. If Acie doesn't pan out at the point then we're screwed. If Acie bombs and Conley turns out well then there is no question Conley should have been the pick.

You just can't accept the truth. You keep saying i was wrong but when i ask you what i was wrong about you run like a chump.

Fact is you were wrong when you said in preseason that we didn't need another big man. You said Sekou was dead wrong when he brought it up.

[tontoz]

Some other mrh quotes from that thread.

Biedrins is a better young center than Bynum.

Biedrins plays a position that is harder to fill and still has a ton of upside. Only Greg Oden is a better center prospect in the NBA.

Plus, you're moving Horford to his natural position, where he'd be the one creating mismatches, not the other way around.

LOL @ Horford creating mismatches at any position.

He's also highly combustible, incredibly inefficient offensive, and "reportedly" hard to get along with.

Great endorsement of Smith there, who has been our best player so far this year.

You would be getting a player with every bit as much potential to be an All-Star as Josh Smith does.

It's funny because if you asked GS fans whether they would trade Beans straight-up for Josh Smith, they'd give you some of the same passionate "NO's" as you're reading on here.

Your comments make your position pretty clear.



Here is what i had to say at the time (keep in mind this was in November when Smith was playing like crap).

I would agree with this. However i still don't like the deal. People are assuming that Horford will just all of a sudden become a scorer when he hasn't been his whole career.

We need Smiths offense because not only does he score but he also forces the D to react to him and creates opportunities for other players.

[HeyIt'sMe]

I sort of agree. Horford wasn't a big scorer at Florida and probably never will be in the NBA. That said, he's playing out of position against bigger, stronger players and we'll see what he's doing down the line when he's playing his natural PF position and has more experience.

I think college stats are deceiving. 13 and 9 for a college big, particularly on a back-to-back championship team that had no players average gaudy numbers, can be misleading. Ewing and Olajuwon weren't big scorers in college, either, while a player like Rafael Araujo averaged nearly 20 and 10 his senior season and did jack in the NBA. I think it's unfair to judge someone's scoring ability based on their play in college. Lots of great NBA scorers didn't put up great college numbers because of the teams they played on or the system they played in.

Now, Horford's mediocre offensive production thus far is certainly a legitimate argument, but it's not because of what he did in college. I still think down the line he could turn into a 15 and 10 type player... as long as he's playing PF.