The Tradability of the Current Wolves

[shrink]

I started this post as an attempt to answer the Rashad McCants tradability question, but I soon realized it was a bigger topic than this.

The following is how I see the tradability of the wolves players .. from the wolves point of view. I would appreciate feedback from other Wolves fans on which players should be moved up or down, as it would help me guage whether I'm creating trades that appeal to not just me, but our general fanbase.


Virtually Untradable: Al Jefferson. The key player in the KG deal, and the elite big man McHale covets.

Slightly Less than "Virtually Untradable:" Randy Foye, Corey Brewer, the 2008 MIN 1st. The Wolves have heavily invested in these lottery picks, and management needs to see that they've done well. Foye put up near identical per-minute numbers to ROY ROY, MIN just was giving Mike James the chance at the beginning of the year. We have a 132-page thread on the pick .. trading it would break a lot of hearts.

Probably not Tradable: Rashad McCants, Theo Ratliff. I think McCants was in the group above with the other lottery picks, but he's drifted behind them lately. MIN has invested a lot of time, effort, and hope in McCants, and because of the microfracture surgery, this is really his first chance to see if the investment was worth it. MIN probably won't deal him until they know for sure.

Ratliff's expiring contract is needed to bring back our restricted free agents and stay under the lux. The only way I could see him dealt is if the deal included one or two of Craig Smith, Gomes, and Telfair, and that would take a big offer. However, the Gasol trade demonstrated that big expirings can bring back big returns, so I think MIN would have to listen to offers.

Tradable, but it'll cost you: Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Craig Smith, MIA 1st. Our three restricted free agents are players we probably want to bring back .. and probably in that order. Gomes is averaging like 16 PPG, 7 RPG since being named a starter, and Telfair has shown far more than we expected. Craig Smith is just as talented, but he doesn't quite fit as well. The reason they may be tradable is that they may just be rentals, because as RFA's, there's no guarantee we aren't outbid this summer, and lose them for nothing. The MIA 1st could turn into something very valuable in the next year or two.

Tradable, slightly net positive value: BOS 2009 1st, MIN 2nd, MIA 2nd, Gerald Green, Micheal Doleac. The Celtics aren't young, and while I wouldn't want to see it happen, an injury or two could make this pick more valuable. The two 2nd-rounders at the top of the round may be more valuable than late 1sts, since they can bring back players that can can be sent to Europe and won't affect salary caps or roster sizes. Gerald Green is an unrestricted free agent, and is unlikely to return unless he shows something soon. Michael Doleac is a useful $3.1 mil expiring for us .. money to help bring back one of our RFA's.

Tradable, neutral value: Mark Madsen. He's a 3rd string center, but is paid like one as well, with a three year deal in the $2's. He knows his role, and is perhaps our best attitude on the bench, in the locker room, and in the community. Moving him doesn't provide incentive, and I suspect Taylor would like him in the organization when he retires.

Tradable, slightly net negative value: Antoine Walker, Greg Buckner. These guys are looking more valuable these days, since they will be valuable expiring contracts this summer. In addition, they both come off the books at the same time that we lose Hudson and Juwon's deals, and in the Summer of 2009, we'll have a chance to look at free agency. Trading them for longer deals might be harder. Walker is producing better than many realize (8 PPG, 4 RPG) and can be useful at times, as I assume Buckner can be -- he just simply won't get playing time as a swingman on this young team.

Tradable, a little more negative value: Marko Jaric. He carries a deal that runs 3.5 more years, averaging $6.9 mil. Most people from other boards see him as a horrible contract, but he no longer makes the ESPN list of the Top 25 worst. If he was a $4 mil player, his salary would fit. People also under-estimate his usefulness. I tend to view his value where I'd take a deal for a guy with 1.5 years left that had no production (aligning with the rest of the deals expiring in 2009) or a deal a year shorter if the player was productive and a better fit. He starts for the Wolves, and his ability to pass, get players in the right position, and avoid shots may be speeding up the learning curve of the young Wolves.

Comments? which guys should be moved up or down?

[theGreatRC]

Very nice write up Shrink; trade post at it's best. Can't really point anything out on the list that you need to change.

[deeney0]

McCants is impossible to peg right now. I don't know how much to read into yesterday. Could it be the straw that broke the camel's back? The organization might just say "enough is enough" and get whatever they can get. I hope not.

[Krapinsky]

I like it.

i would move Ratliff to the top with Jeffeson. I can't see him being traded under any condition right now.

i would also move McCants down one to 'tradeable, but it'll cost you.'

[C.lupus]

Looks about right to me. As the others said, the only possible questions are Ratliff and McCants. I think Theo has more value to us as an expiring than we would get in return so I might push him up at least one notch. Don't know about Shad. I suspect McHale is getting a bit fed up and would move him for the right price.

[collin_k41]

i do not want us to trade mccants. He's got soo much talent and i have a feeling that if he leaves he'll turn into a star ala chauncey billups. I agree with you guys that there's this vibe that the front office/wittman do not like him. It's making me mad.

[TrentTuckerForever]

i do not want us to trade mccants. He's got soo much talent and i have a feeling that if he leaves he'll turn into a star ala chauncey billups. I agree with you guys that there's this vibe that the front office/wittman do not like him. It's making me mad.

What makes me mad is Rashard's attitude. He's got the gifts, but so did JR Rider and we all saw how that turned out. Wittman's a below-average coach, but doesn't mean you should show him up and act big time like McCants did last night.

As for Shrink's list overall - very nice assessment. I would move the pick down two levels "We'll trade it, but it will cost you." I really think that Foye and Big Al will be all-stars in the league, and you need to maintain salary flexibility and build around them. Derrick Rose and Michael Beasley will probably be franchise players eventually, but they don't fit with our guys.

I would move the current pick, looking to add veterans in the Sam Mitchell/Terry Porter mold or trade down.

[mandurugo]

You've rated everyone much higher than I would, I look at our record and think everyone is availible for the right deal. I tend to favor defensive ability over offensive ability, team play over individual play. As constructed the team seems just as unbalanced as ever. I break my (somewhat) keepers as

C: -, Doleac
PF: Al Jefferson
SF: Gomes
SG: Jaric, Brewer
PG: -, Telfair

I'm more willing to trade these guys for these percieved weaknesses in their game:

Foye - no defined position. Looks like a combo guard, too small to start at SG, not a floor general.
McCants - no defined position. Undersized at the 2, usually poor on defense, inconsistent on offense, doesn't create well for others
Smith - excellent scorer, but doesn't improve team offense. Weak on defense.
Madsen - Smith's mirror image, excellent defensive player who is totally lost on offense
Green - he can be horrifying too watch at times
Walker - just not a big fan I guess
Buckner - well he had a couple of good games early...

[TrentTuckerForever]

Smith - excellent scorer, but doesn't improve team offense. Weak on defense.
Madsen - Smith's mirror image, excellent defensive player who is totally lost on offense

If only we could graft them together somehow. Cark Madsith?

I think you're going a little hard on Foye since he hasn't been healthy and does NOT fit with the Wolves' 2nd unit. He looked like he could be 'the man' someday playing with last year's starters.

Also, don't forget this post was supposed to be more about 'tradability' (if that's a word) than 'ability.' The NBA is about fit as much as it is about talent... we've got guys who could succeed if they played for other teams (which is why they're tradable.) We also have Gerald Green.

[wolves_fan_82au]

i dont like Foye at the point at all even my firend saw so many weaknesses in hes game ,our wing players were open most the night and he didnt even pass too them for open shots that is not what a pg is suppose to do

Telfair needs too start hitting those open shots hes passing ability is awesome but i dont think hes anymore than a backup pg

Mccants is a perfect 6th man that could one day be a starter , he owned Pierce so many times last night and the weird thing is i dont remember Pierce scoring on him in the 2nd quater

Brewer imo is untradable what i saw last night was amazing in pierce's face all night he made him work hard for everything

Gomes/smith/Jaric/Ratliff are all tradable for t he right price imo

Buckner/walker/green/Doleac are tradable for anyone

[deeney0]

Foye's not going to be back in form until next season. Don't set your expectations too high.

[scottyo50]

personally, i think you have brew and gomes mixed up. brewer is good and all, but gomes has really shone this year, and looks to be a great peice

[wolves_fan_82au]

Foye's not going to be back in form until next season. Don't set your expectations too high.

um even last season i saw it ,yes it was hes rookie year but i just dont like combo guards as pg

[deeney0]

He played great last April.

[wolves_fan_82au]

personally, i think you have brew and gomes mixed up. brewer is good and all, but gomes has really shone this year, and looks to be a great peice

are u talking too me ????

if u are Gomes didnt do much yesterday thats not saying he isnt good im just saying Brewer was doing everything yesterday Pierce could barley get a shot of and when he got one he had too work twice as hard for it

i think once Brewer is ready do we need Gomes?? will he be happy to play of the bench???

[JBoog35]

I know I have always been on McCants' side, but now I am almost positive he needs to be moved. I do think it'll be Billups 2.0, but I think he will rot here. That being said, we still need outside shooting. I have a trade idea.

Min Out:
SG Rashad McCants
C Michael Doleac
PF-C Chris Richard
In:
SG J.J. Redick
PF-C Hilton Armstrong

New Orleans Out:
PG Bobby Jackson
PF-C Hilton Armstrong
In:
PG Carlos Arroyo
SG: Rashad McCants
PF-C Adonal Foyle

Orlando Out:
PG Carlos Arroyo
SG JJ Redick
C: Adonal Foyle
In:
C Michael Doleac
PG Bobby Jackson
PF-C Chris Richard

Orlando: Gets rid of their players that they can't get figured out. JJ barely plays. Arroyo, in my opinion is good, for some reason isn't in their plans in Orlando. Foyle to match salaries. They get a steady vet PG off the bench and PF-C Chris Richard from Florida, who their board loves and a vet Center off the bench who is an upgrade over Foyle who can pop the mid range J giving Howard some space.

NO: They get the fire power off the bench the coach has been asking for. Really they make out like bandits. They give up Hilton a promising young big, but get back some real scorers off the bench in Arroyo and McCants.

Min: They give up on McCants and deal Doleac and Richard for a shooter to replace McCants in Redick and a real Center prospect in Armstrong.

[MN Die Hard]

Pretty solid shrink. I would move a handful of guys but none of them more than one level.

McCants (down) - Undersized, inconsistent, and question marks on defense. I think "probably untradable" is a bit too generous for him right now.

Miami 1st (down) - Miami strikes me as an active team that will take the necessary steps to improve. Already next year they'll have Wade (a top five player), Marion (one of the better wing men), and a high lottery pick. They will be a good team again next year, and the pick will be lower than what many Wolves fans are expecting.

Gomes (up) - I think you're right with the order of how we'll resign the RFAs. Right now I dont see any way we dont bring Gomes back.

Green (down) - I just dont see any value there....if one of the worst teams in the league wont play him, why would anyone else want him? I can understand the thinking though from MN fans, I just think its wishful thinking.

Madsen (up) - I think you're write up of him was right on, but the ranking is a bit low for him. I'd bump him all the way up to "tradable but it will cost you".

Walker/Buck/Jaric (up) - This is from the Wolves POV right? Based on ideas our fans post, I think most people here see these guys as having pretty close to neutral value.

[theGreatRC]

Pretty solid shrink. I would move a handful of guys but none of them more than one level.

McCants (down) - Undersized, inconsistent, and question marks on defense. I think "probably untradable" is a bit too generous for him right now.

Miami 1st (down) - Miami strikes me as an active team that will take the necessary steps to improve. Already next year they'll have Wade (a top five player), Marion (one of the better wing men), and a high lottery pick. They will be a good team again next year, and the pick will be lower than what many Wolves fans are expecting.

Gomes (up) - I think you're right with the order of how we'll resign the RFAs. Right now I dont see any way we dont bring Gomes back.

Green (down) - I just dont see any value there....if one of the worst teams in the league wont play him, why would anyone else want him? I can understand the thinking though from MN fans, I just think its wishful thinking.

Madsen (up) - I think you're write up of him was right on, but the ranking is a bit low for him. I'd bump him all the way up to "tradable but it will cost you".

Walker/Buck/Jaric (up) - This is from the Wolves POV right? Based on ideas our fans post, I think most people here see these guys as having pretty close to neutral value.

I don't think being undersized is a problem with McCants. Ray Allen is the same size as McCants.

[Mikchek]

what did mccants do to wittman...

[PPAW4Life]

Last game against the Celtics I saw Mccants not go hard for the loose ball that James Posey who was on the floor and on his back came up with the loose ball.

The I think Brewer came in for Rashad and that was the end of the night for him.....