GM a Team Part 3 (Transactions) unsticky plz

[sterncohen]

I did not think the LA-MIN trade should have been vetoed the first time around or this second time either. As we learned in the earlier rounds of this game, different players have different levels of tolerance for risk. I wouldn't have made this trade for LA either, but if the Minnesota pick turns out to be in the top two or three he'll come out fine. Whether that's an acceptable risk is the LA owner's decision, not mine.

There's a bigger issue here: I think it's time to change the veto rules. If I recall the last round of the game correctly, having three players speak up against a trade didn't veto it. Rather, the trade was then put up for a veto / no-veto vote of all owners, and it took a majority vote to veto.

That seems a good deal fairer than what we've got now, where if three people get mad they can knock out a trade, even if most players think it's OK.

[skorff26]

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holy crap! veto!

Ratliff's expiring <<<< Brand
McCants <<< Thornton
Buckner = Knight
LAC 2nd Rounder (likely 35-45) << 08 1st Rounder (early lottery)

why not do Brand for Ratliff + 1st + McCants?

no one is looking at the big picture for the clippers

brand/thorton <max free agent signing/MN 1st/mccants

-thorton and mccants are included because minnesota is taking a big risk with brand hoping that he'll come back 100%.

-and imagine a clippers team with 2 top 10 picks (probably both in top 7 maybe even top 5), mccants, kaman, max level free agent (could be a younger player); they just built a very good core team that could compete for the next 8-10 years

-and lastly zong you just proved how much of any idiot you are by this comparison right here:
McCants <<< Thornton
LAC 2nd Rounder (likely 35-45) << 08 1st Rounder (early lottery);

so you're saying that thorton (14th overall 2007; and he's 24 years old), and a high 2nd rounder >mccants (14th overall 2005, and he's 23 years old), and a high 1st rounder;
maybe you don't understand that draft picks are VALUABLE, minnesota's first rounder could easily become a superstar, and if you don't understand the value of draft picks, I'm sure you don't understand the value of cap space (look at Gasol trade) and the ability to sign all star caliber free agents with that cap space.

[deviljets7]

I did not think the LA-MIN trade should have been vetoed the first time around or this second time either. As we learned in the earlier rounds of this game, different players have different levels of tolerance for risk. I wouldn't have made this trade for LA either, but if the Minnesota pick turns out to be in the top two or three he'll come out fine. Whether that's an acceptable risk is the LA owner's decision, not mine.

There's a bigger issue here: I think it's time to change the veto rules. If I recall the last round of the game correctly, having three players speak up against a trade didn't veto it. Rather, the trade was then put up for a veto / no-veto vote of all owners, and it took a majority vote to veto.

That seems a good deal fairer than what we've got now, where if three people get mad they can knock out a trade, even if most players think it's OK.

Agreed.

The fact that people argued that the original trade was unfair on both sides, is proof that it should not have been vetoed IMO.

[#1knickfan]

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And why is it horrible for the clippers, yes they lose out talent wise but come the summer they will get 2 high firsts and I'm pretty sure that they may have enough money to get a max money player... which i don't think you're considering.

As an impartial person I will tell you that there is that big of a difference and it boils down to McCants size. He doesn't have great point guard skills and it is highly unlikely that he'll develop into even half the player that Gilbert Arenas is. So even in the event that talent and potential wise these guys are similar, which I do not agree with, the fact that Thorton would be a big shooting guard and an average sized small foward make him more valuable than McCants who is clearly too small for shooting guard and doesn't have the skills for point guard.

[roseorbust]

Minnesota and Los Angeles Clippers have a trade to announce

L.A. Clippers Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
Rashad McCants
Greg Buckner
Theo Ratliff
Minnesota 08 1st round pick (unprotected)
Outgoing Players
Brevin Knight
Al Thornton
Elton Brand
08 2nd rounder

Minnesota Trade Breakdown
Incoming Players
Brevin Knight
Al Thornton
Elton Brand
08 LAC 2nd rounder
Outgoing Players
Rashad McCants
Greg Buckner
Theo Ratliff
08 1st rounder

Trade ID #4488482

I'm vetoeing this miled modified trade.

Brand IS the max free agent out there. This trade makes no sense for EITHER side. Brand plays the same position as jefferson, the wolves are much better off getting someone other then brand for this package. Al Thornton for Mccants adds to the insanenes




THIRD VETO

[skorff26]

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As an impartial person I will tell you that there is that big of a difference and it boils down to McCants size. He doesn't have great point guard skills and it is highly unlikely that he'll develop into even half the player that Gilbert Arenas is. So even in the event that talent and potential wise these guys are similar, which I do not agree with, the fact that Thorton would be a big shooting guard and an average sized small foward make him more valuable than McCants who is clearly too small for shooting guard and doesn't have the skills for point guard.

i'm not arguing that thorton would be better i believe he would be, but they are forgetting that thorton is already 24 years old and is older than mccants, the two previous posters made it sound like thorton is way better than mccants and he isn't way better just a little bit.

[LeQuitterNotMVP]

The Mavericks and Heat have come to an agreement on a deal:

Mavs trade/Heat receive:

Devean George $2,369,111
2008 DAL 2nd round pick
2009 DAL 2nd round pick

Heat trade/Mavs receive:

Alonzo Mourning $2,762,500

2,369,111 X 1.25 = 2,961,388

2,961,388>2,762,500

Heat accept.

[zong]

for the sake of argument, lets just say, for 08-09, the Clippers DChart looks like this:

Before Draft + FAs:
Kaman
Thomas/Powell
McCants
Mobley
?pg?
--> total salaries: 30 million (approx)
-->34 million cap space (approx)


After Draft (best case scenario):
Kaman
Beasley/Powell
McCants/Thomas
Mobley
Rose

After draft, you'd have around 28 mill to throw at FAs, I'm guessing LAC (best case scenarios) will toss a maximum deal at players like Josh Smith? a good chunk for Monta Ellis? a good chunk for re-signing Mags?

Kaman (8.6 mill)
Smith (13m) Thomas (6m)
Beasley (4m) Mags (7m)
Ellis (9m) Mobley (8m) Buckner (3m)
Rose (4m)

about 60 mil in salary, a quick re-tool for a run next year? Keep in mind this is about the absolute BEST CASE scenario with Rose + Beasley, I do not think the clippers will get this lucky, even on the FA market.

This is why I think Brand for a Minny's Unprotected 1st + Ratliff + McCants is a much viable deal, I know im not the GM of your team and may not be as ballsy to make a move like this, but LAC should consider even if the best case scenario works out, its smarter to go with Kaman/Brand/Maggette/Mobley/Cassell for the time being and keep Thornton to draft a PG or SG

sorry if my veto offended you

[Teddy KGB]

The Mavericks and Heat have come to an agreement on a deal:

Mavs trade/Heat receive:

Devean George $2,369,111
2008 DAL 2nd round pick
2009 DAL 2nd round pick

Heat trade/Mavs receive:

Alonzo Mourning $2,762,500

2,369,111 X 1.25 = 2,961,388

2,961,388>2,762,500

Heat accept.

The Mavericks accept and welcome Zo to the Big D! We will win it this year for Zo and Deke and Stack!

[deviljets7]

^^^^^

Vetoes should be used for trades that are blatantly unfair, not because a team is doing something you wouldn't do if you were in this situation.

The idea that this Brand to MIN trade got refused once already is absurd. For it to happen a second time is just ridiculous.

[Duncanfan]

for the sake of argument, lets just say, for 08-09, the Clippers DChart looks like this:

Before Draft + FAs:
Kaman
Thomas/Powell
McCants
Mobley
?pg?
--> total salaries: 30 million (approx)
-->34 million cap space (approx)


After Draft (best case scenario):
Kaman
Beasley/Powell
McCants/Thomas
Mobley
Rose

After draft, you'd have around 28 mill to throw at FAs, I'm guessing LAC (best case scenarios) will toss a maximum deal at players like Josh Smith? a good chunk for Monta Ellis? a good chunk for re-signing Mags?

Kaman (8.6 mill)
Smith (13m) Thomas (6m)
Beasley (4m) Mags (7m)
Ellis (9m) Mobley (8m) Buckner (3m)
Rose (4m)

about 60 mil in salary, a quick re-tool for a run next year? Keep in mind this is about the absolute BEST CASE scenario with Rose + Beasley, I do not think the clippers will get this lucky, even on the FA market.

This is why I think Brand for a Minny's Unprotected 1st + Ratliff + McCants is a much viable deal, I know im not the GM of your team and may not be as ballsy to make a move like this, but LAC should consider even if the best case scenario works out, its smarter to go with Kaman/Brand/Maggette/Mobley/Cassell for the time being and keep Thornton to draft a PG or SG

sorry if my veto offended you

Do you really think that the Ellis and Josh Smith owners won't resign them and let them walk? Remember, they are all restricted FA's. So teams having a larger cap space doesn't mean that they;'ll get the FA's they need.

I am not going to comment on the trade between Minny and Clippers. People have given their opinion on it already, positive or negative. But I just want to tell you guys not to just shed salary for the heck of it hoping that you would be able to resign high-in-deand FA's as most of them are restricted and team owners will probably match.

[zong]

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Do you really think that the Ellis and Josh Smith owners won't resign them and let them walk? Remember, they are all restricted FA's. So teams having a larger cap space doesn't mean that they;'ll get the FA's they need.

I am not going to comment on the trade between Minny and Clippers. People have given their opinion on it already, positive or negative. But I just want to tell you guys not to just shed salary for the heck of it hoping that you would be able to resign high-in-deand FA's as most of them are restricted and team owners will probably match.

see, this is exactly what I mean, does LAC "honestly" expect to sign the star FAs of this year's crop? they're all RFAs who can have thier offers matched, thats why its not a win-win situation for LAC but a HUUUUGE bonus for the TWolves (a Franchise PF/C + athletic freak prospect). Thanks Duncanfan for pointing that out.

[Duncanfan]

-= original quote snipped =-


see, this is exactly what I mean, does LAC "honestly" expect to sign the star FAs of this year's crop? they're all RFAs who can have thier offers matched, thats why its not a win-win situation for LAC but a HUUUUGE bonus for the TWolves (a Franchise PF/C + athletic freak prospect). Thanks Duncanfan for pointing that out.

I didn't point it out in the LAC's perspective. But in general. In the past game too, we have seen teams shed massive salary by trading their stars for expirings and picks hopeing to sign the big FA's. and it didn't turn out well for them. So my comments were directed at ALL GM's that don't blindly assume that you'll be able to sign a Josh Smith or a Monte Ellis cuz you have cap space.

[skorff26]

Minnesota and New Jersey have a deal to announce

Trade ID #4489103

MN out/NJ in: Corey Brewer, Randy Foye, Craig Smith, Chris Richard, Antoine Walker

NJ out/MN in: Richard Jefferson, Stromile Swift

-minnesota accepts and is happy to bring in RJ and his great all around game.

[skorff26]

for the sake of argument, lets just say, for 08-09, the Clippers DChart looks like this:

Before Draft + FAs:
Kaman
Thomas/Powell
McCants
Mobley
?pg?
--> total salaries: 30 million (approx)
-->34 million cap space (approx)


After Draft (best case scenario):
Kaman
Beasley/Powell
McCants/Thomas
Mobley
Rose

After draft, you'd have around 28 mill to throw at FAs, I'm guessing LAC (best case scenarios) will toss a maximum deal at players like Josh Smith? a good chunk for Monta Ellis? a good chunk for re-signing Mags?

Kaman (8.6 mill)
Smith (13m) Thomas (6m)
Beasley (4m) Mags (7m)
Ellis (9m) Mobley (8m) Buckner (3m)
Rose (4m)

about 60 mil in salary, a quick re-tool for a run next year? Keep in mind this is about the absolute BEST CASE scenario with Rose + Beasley, I do not think the clippers will get this lucky, even on the FA market.

This is why I think Brand for a Minny's Unprotected 1st + Ratliff + McCants is a much viable deal, I know im not the GM of your team and may not be as ballsy to make a move like this, but LAC should consider even if the best case scenario works out, its smarter to go with Kaman/Brand/Maggette/Mobley/Cassell for the time being and keep Thornton to draft a PG or SG

sorry if my veto offended you

sorry that i came off so harshly... I just think that the veto rule is being used way too much... and i don't think the clippers would get their best case scenario, but it should be every teams goal to win a championship as soon as they can, and the kaman/brand/maggette/mobley/cassell wouldn't win a championship ever IMO, but getting a max player in the next few years and a stud in this draft (highly possible with 2 top picks) could turn into a championship in 3 or 4 years.

[dunkonu21]

Minnesota and New Jersey have a deal to announce

Trade ID #4489103

MN out/NJ in: Corey Brewer, Randy Foye, Craig Smith, Chris Richard, Antoine Walker

NJ out/MN in: Richard Jefferson, Stromile Swift

-minnesota accepts and is happy to bring in RJ and his great all around game.

You should have let me be Minny

[Raptors90102]

Minnesota and New Jersey have a deal to announce

Trade ID #4489103

MN out/NJ in: Corey Brewer, Randy Foye, Craig Smith, Chris Richard, Antoine Walker

NJ out/MN in: Richard Jefferson, Stromile Swift

-minnesota accepts and is happy to bring in RJ and his great all around game.

wow! Minny GM, you sure you're not under the influence? Brewer, Foye AND Smith for an overpaid RJ? please tell me that was Joke..

[roseorbust]

Minnesota and New Jersey have a deal to announce

Trade ID #4489103

MN out/NJ in: Corey Brewer, Randy Foye, Craig Smith, Chris Richard, Antoine Walker

NJ out/MN in: Richard Jefferson, Stromile Swift

-minnesota accepts and is happy to bring in RJ and his great all around game.

MY GOD NO! Why would you trade your future for a overpaid overrated RJ. I veto this trade, your getting supremely screwed.

[#1knickfan]

I really have a problem with the language being used by people in this league. If you don't like a deal just explain why and veto it. But whenever you say omg you got screwed, why the hell did you make that trade etc. you get people all defensive. No body wants to participate in leagues when people are going to jump all over them for disagreeing. Keep it f*cking civil.

[bryant08]

I really have a problem with the language being used by people in this league. If you don't like a f*cking deal just explain why and veto it. But whenever you say omg you got screwed, why the hell did you make that trade etc. you get people all defensive. No body wants to participate in leagues when people are going to jump all over them for disagreeing. Keep it f*cking civil.

You complain about the language and then go and use the f word twice. Hypocrite.
Guys if you can't keep your language in check, don't post anything at all.