Doc has coached the C's to a 5-2 record since KG went down

[GonzoLays]

...with wins over Dallas and San Antonio no less.

Your thoughts.

(But, but ANYBODY could coach the C's to the best record with KG, Allen, and Pierce...)

This should be good.

[Celtic Esquire]

I take back all the crap I laid on Doc last year.

I promise never to say a negative word about him if he brings us #17 this year.

[tlee324]

I think he's doing a fine job with KG down, no doubt. Take everything into account, though. Not cherry-pick.

I don't think what's being done now exonerates past criticism, but you give him credit when he does well too. He's doing well now, and that's a good thing.

Good of you to try and use it to promote the "great gonzo lays", though.

[TommyPoints]

Props to Doc

[daveisceltics]

[greenmachine_2849]

I don't think what's being done now exonerates past criticism, but you give him credit when he does well too. He's doing well now, and that's a good thing.

But he's the EXACT same coach he has been the past three years. Van Gundy said as much during the commentary today. The previous two years, he had been put in a no-win situation, where he could have been a top five coach in the NBA or a bottom five coach in the NBA, and it wouldn't have really mattered too much, record-wise. But you give him a team with a lot of all-star talent, a handful of smart veteran roleplayers, and two or three young players READY to contribute, and Rivers has performed about as well as any coach could have been expected to, imo, especially considering that most of these players are adjusting to new teammates.

more telling, as this thread says, is how he is doing with an "average" but mostly veteran roster, now that Garnett is out. He appears to be overachieving. But he basically had that same type of roster back in 04-05, and he won the division with it. So I don't know how people can act as if the fact that Rivers can effectively coach a veteran team with a couple of all-star caliber players on it is coming out of left field.

[BillessuR6]

So, have you changed your mind? You have always said that it is the players who win, anybody can be the coach...



Doc, has definitely been doing a better job this year. He still make some stupid decisions but all in all he has been pretty solid.

[UGA Hayes]

I don't agree with this totally, coaches can still make mistakes. I never expected him to win last year but he certainly could handle the roster differently at times. Even at the beginning of the year I didn't love the way he was playing guys (which by the way we might be seeing some of the fruits of since our guys look pretty tiresd at time) However since the first month I have agreed with most of Docs decisions. (except for taking ray out for tony in todays game shows some guts Doc, leave the star on the bench).

[GonzoLays]

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But he's the EXACT same coach he has been the past three years. Van Gundy said as much during the commentary today. The previous two years, he had been put in a no-win situation, where he could have been a top five coach in the NBA or a bottom five coach in the NBA, and it wouldn't have really mattered too much, record-wise. But you give him a team with a lot of all-star talent, a handful of smart veteran roleplayers, and two or three young players READY to contribute, and Rivers has performed about as well as any coach could have been expected to, imo, especially considering that most of these players are adjusting to new teammates.

more telling, as this thread says, is how he is doing with an "average" but mostly veteran roster, now that Garnett is out. He appears to be overachieving. But he basically had that same type of roster back in 04-05, and he won the division with it. So I don't know how people can act as if the fact that Rivers can effectively coach a veteran team with a couple of all-star caliber players on it is coming out of left field.

I'm just quoting this man for some truth. Nothing more.

[SuperDeluxe]

So, have you changed your mind? You have always said that it is the players who win, anybody can be the coach...

At some point in the game, Rivers referred to Pierce as "Coach Pierce", which basically proves Gonzo's take.

I think this is it for this debate.

[threrf23]

I think Tom Tibby needs more props then he's been getting. Listening to JVG and his commentary, does it cross anyone's mind that the Rockets may have been lost the past few seasons without Tibby?

[sully00]

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At some point in the game, Rivers referred to Pierce as "Coach Pierce", which basically proves Gonzo's take.

I think this is it for this debate.

That was in sarcasm, Doc was asking Rondo why he was doing something a certain way, likely opposite of what Doc told him and Rondo responded saying that Pierce had told him to do it that way. Doc then said well "I will talk to Coach Pierce about that later because I think it is crazy."

That said it is a players league and JVG explained it as well as you can. Without Duncan Popovich is an out of work stiff just a like a ton of other guys. To be a good coach you have to do all the things that good coaches do but if you don't have great players who lead by example and give it there all on both ends it doesn't matter how good a coach you are.

It is pretty funny that now Doc is the best coach in the league coming out of a timeout (this was also ironically true last season) as well as the best in the league at halftime adjustments, things he has been killed for on this board over the last 3 seasons. While Thibodeau is a good coach in his own right and deserves plenty of credit for this teams defensive play understand he and Doc and JVG and everyone else say and do the same damn things, it is the players who have to go out and do it.

[tlee324]

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But he's the EXACT same coach he has been the past three years. Van Gundy said as much during the commentary today.

I don't think Van Gundy's the authority any more than we are, honestly. It's just opinion. For him just to say it without anything more really doesn't do much justice. The guy also said the Knicks are just as talented as the Celtics without Garnett.... It's just opinion.

Do I think he's the same coach? I don't really know. I think with the Pierce/Payton/Ricky/Walker team, he did a crappy job after the initial winning streak. I think the back and forth on how he was or wasn't outcoached in the playoffs has been played out ad-nauseum, and if that happens again with this team... damn... that's all I can say.

Right now, I think he's doing a better job coaching, and we're seeing how he's adjusted with KG out. He's not afraid to go to Glen Davis late in games, he's not afraid to keep Rondo out there anymore, he's not stubbornly leaving Veal out there when he's not producing. It's a better job. I recall threads just BEGGING for him to put Powe on the floor over Veal when Jefferson went down with ankle injuries. We're not seeing that same problem. We're also not seeing him trying to force TA into a PG position. When TA struggles, he's taken out.

Now maybe we can discuss how perhaps Ainge forced him to make those types of head-scratching decisions in the past for the sake of development, but I just think he made some bad decisions in the past, and we're not seeing so much of that anymore. Gonzo can say it's because "it's a playas league, son", and you can say whatever, but the fact of the matter is it doesn't really matter. The C's are doing well and Doc's doing his job well so far, finally. I'm happy. Are you guys?

And I'm GLAD to see this occurring. You think I wanted to see Doc continue to make poor coaching decisions? NO WAY! I'm GLAD he did a good job with KG going down. From my perspective, it was unexpected, but a pleasant surprise.

[sully00]

Just for kicks BMC you should hear what Rick Carlisle has to say about Doc, being how he was supposedly the guy that out coached him. He was on the radio today for ESPN talking about him like he was his father or his girlfriend or something.

The guy is 39-9 what else can be said we don't make it to the finals all the naysayers will be back.

[Joyeuse]

Have to give credit both to the coaching staff and to the players.

[GreenMachine]

I think Tom Tibby needs more props then he's been getting.

[Joyeuse]

For what it's worth, I've never seen an assistant coach get as much credit as Tom is now, and I've rarely seen a head coach receive as little credit for as good a record as the Celtics have. I don't think it's entirely clear how exactly how much credit should go to each of them, especially considering the Celtics have developed an offense that is, if not among the best, at least within striking distance. I know the instant reaction would be to say that any team with Allen, Pierce, and Garnett should have a good offense, but they play beautifully as a team, even with bench players. Then you have the hustle that the Celtics have shown this whole season. That's something that probably comes from both coaches and players, but whatever's going on, the team always seem aware, prepared, and active on the court. I feel as if Doc should get at least some credit for that.

[greenmachine_2849]

Gonzo can say it's because "it's a playas league, son", and you can say whatever, but the fact of the matter is it doesn't really matter. The C's are doing well and Doc's doing his job well so far, finally. I'm happy. Are you guys?

Can't speak for Gonzo, but yeah I'm happy. At the end of the day, all that matters is that Rivers is the head coach of the team with the best record, and Ainge is the general manager of the team with the best record. I don't believe that Ainge was consistently a good general manager during his entire 5-year stint with the Celtics up to this point, and you evidently don't believe that Rivers was a good coach during all his 4-year stint with the Celtics. It doesn't matter; both have been hitting on all cylinders as of late, and I am very much enjoying the ride.

[ParticleMan]

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
--Mark Twain, novelist


Doc is the same coach he's always been. He looks a lot better now that he has high-quality players who actually understand how to run his plays and play D, and are committed to a team concept.

[Fencer reregistered]

Rivers was not an effective teacher to the youngsters. I think some coaches would have done a lot better.

But when a coach's main job is to keep 'em playing hard and give them a bit of guidance about priorities, he's obviously pretty good.