Bucks/Knicks Post Game

[DH34Phan]

Again, I don't believe Redd's Max contract is ideal. But I'd be much more inclined to focus on it if the Bucks didn't have so many other bad contracts that are truly doing damage to this team in my opinion. It's hard for me to vent a lot of anger at Redd or his contract when he's one of the few players on this team who actually is providing some value given what he's being paid.

Agreed, but that's my whole point. Instead of shelling out huge money in the Summer of 2005 to try to build around Redd, we should have cleared our books, and built around Bogut. We still had TJ, Mo, and Ersan too. We could have gone completely young and developed our young talents.

We may have sucked the last 2 seasons, but we have sucked the last 2 seasons anyways and now we are in cap hell for at least another 2 seasons.

Look at what Memphis is doing. They are starting both their lotto picks (Gay and Conley), JC Navarro (rookie), and Darko. Mike Miller is probably going to get traded along with Cardinal, and they will have a Conley/Gay/Darko core with an infinite amount of caproom and another lotto pick.

They are only 4 games worse than us, but are developing their young talent way better that we are.

[kebzach]

I can't wait for Ryan Braun's biggest fan to come in here whining at Europa about making multiple reply posts in a row.

[europa]

I can't wait for Ryan Braun's biggest fan to come in here whining at Europa about making multiple reply posts in a row.

Huh?

[El Duderino]

My view of Redd after watching him the last five years here

He's far from being the problem, but just not good enough at 17 million to be a key part of the solution, so i'm ready to move on in a very different direction while fully understanding it very well may not work out any better than the Redd time here.

Redd to the Bucks kinda reminds me of a girlfriend i had years ago. For awhile i liked her a lot and we had some good times. As time went buy, things started to get a bit stale and i began to have real concerns whether i was just staying with her because i was comfortable with her and she had a great chest. She began hinting at marriage more and more, finally i decided i had to make a decision, was this relationship really going anywhere i wanted or were we just in a bit of a rut.

I decided that if i stayed with her i didn't see things getting all that much better except being comfortable and if i wanted something better, i'd have to move on sooner than later, see if someone else works out better, even if i knew i might regret it later.

That's sorta how i view Redd. The Bucks IMO have a fairly low ceiling if we keep Michael, but the franchise is afraid to move him and see what eventually happens. They'd rather keep him and keep chasing 42-45 win seasons because trading Redd and basically blowing up a key part of what has been the Bucks could possibly not work out as they hope.

[europa]

Redd to the Bucks kinda reminds me of a girlfriend i had years ago. For awhile i liked her a lot and we had some good times. As time went buy, things started to get a bit stale and i began to have real concerns whether i was just staying with her because i was comfortable with her and she had a great chest. She began hinting at marriage more and more, finally i decided i had to make a decision, was this relationship really going anywhere i wanted or were we just in a bit of a rut.

I disagree the Bucks have a low ceiling with Redd but I do admire the fact you stuck it out longer with your ex-girlfriend for the reason bolded above.

[Epicurus]

Would el Dude like Redd better, if Redd had a bigger chest?

[trwi7]

Would el Dude like Redd better, if Redd had a bigger chest?

He should've just kept the weight on. He'd be more appealing and it's not like losing weight prevented him from getting hurt.

[El Duderino]

-= original quote snipped =-



I disagree the Bucks have a low ceiling with Redd but I do admire the fact you stuck it out longer with your ex-girlfriend for the reason bolded above.

Well, she inherited a blessed gene from her family, 34DD with no help from a doctor. Mix in that she was proud of her set of assets, it was quite enjoyable going places and have every guy staring at your lady. Unfortunately, she also inherited her mothers crabby gene, so it was conflicting for different areas of my brain. Enjoy playing with her two gifts from the gods or listen to her complain about worthless nonsense when i got home from work. Like most women, each time i'd think i'd had enough and was ready to walk , she used her gifts on the weak part of my brain and i'd cave.

The downside to those assets is after we were split, she reeled me back in briefly with them and we made a baby and my teenager daughter inherited her mothers genes, my phone now rings off the hook from dirtballs like i was calling for my daughter.

If there is a God, he's getting revenge on me for my past ways and getting a chuckle out of it every time some dirtbag teenage boy calls my house.

[Epicurus]

I have just peeked behind el Dude's personal curtain more than I prefer.

[El Duderino]

Hey Epi, i don't know if you have a daughter, but man it's no fun once they become a teenager. I worked at a place in my past and my boss had six daughters, that must have been terrible.

Given i know how teenage boys think, it's quite nerve racking for me. Time sure does fly by fast. It's seems like a brief time ago that all my daughter cared about were the Rugrats, now shady looking boys with cars are taking her places.

As for Redd, even though i want to move him, i can understand to a degree the senator balking at the idea of going even younger. I saw the end of the Bucks game last night, the place was incredibly empty looking for a Saturday night game. If the team got even worse than it is now, the Bucks will have trouble giving tickets away. I haven't attended a single game this year and no friend of mine has wanted to either.

[paulpressey25]

Europa....I remember those discussions on Redd's contract from the MJS, but to be honest I don't remember exactly why you didn't think that contract wouldn't come back to bite us. I don't remember qualifications at the time about how things would be ok as long as we didn't make any other contract mistakes. I thought your belief was more geared to the fact you thought Redd was a top five player at his position. I was always real concerned on the final two years and that he'd be a boat anchor.

I know you talk many times about the Bucks needing a really smart GM and not Harris. A really smart GM like a Dumars would have immediately seen that you have to be disciplined and can't give a guy like Redd that type of contract. The only reason Redd got that type of deal was because Danny Ferry and Dan Gilbert desperately needed to toss cash at FA's to stand a chance of getting LeBron to stay. Otherwise no one else out there other than the bad GM's like Harris, Ferry or Isiah was going to pay Redd that big a deal.

At the time he signed it, it was an even money question whether he was better than Rip Hamilton who was being paid about $8mm a year back then and whose deal tops out at $11mm a season versus the $18.3mm that Redd's does.

Right now Redd's being massively devalued by Larry K. in this new system and that $17mm a year he's owed going forward will be hard to trade other than to a Dallas or Denver assuming we take some of their deadweight back. That's why I'd call the Bulls on Ben Wallace and hope we could get one of their top line players along with Wallace in a deal.

[europa]

Europa....I remember those discussions on Redd's contract from the MJS, but to be honest I don't remember exactly why you didn't think that contract wouldn't come back to bite us. I don't remember qualifications at the time about how things would be ok as long as we didn't make any other contract mistakes. I thought your belief was more geared to the fact you thought Redd was a top five player at his position. I was always real concerned on the final two years and that he'd be a boat anchor.

It was geared toward three things primarily:

1. Redd's talent and role of importance on the team.

2. My belief that his contract would not be a problem as other contracts for players of his stature would rise in subsequent years.

3. My belief his contract would not be a problem as long as the team did not burden itself with foolish contracts.

Again, I never once ignored the reality that Redd was being overpaid. At no point did I ever call him a superstar and at no point since have I ever called him a superstar. And again, I'd be much inclined to vent about his contract if this team wasn't overflowing with much worse deals given to players who aren't anywhere near as good as Redd is.

[steger_3434]

I think it's safe to say that everyone is in agreement that the way this team is currently constructed we aren't improving in the near future. I think it's also safe to say that everyone does believe that Simmons (before the season Europa you were still calling him a good player) and Gadz are overpaid severely.

Ok, that should be settled. Now this is where the disagreements happen. I would love to get rid of Simmons and Gadz. They pretty much suck and the entire league knows it. We aren't getting a damn thing for them.

Ok, so 2 out of our 3 overpaid players aren't getting a damn thing in return. That only leaves Redd. Now he is a damn good player. Not a number 1 option on a good team, but still a damn good player. His time has expired here though. We've tried it with him for 5 years and we havne't had a winning season once. However, we can still get something for him.

So we can either do this.

1) keep the team as is as it's impossible to get rid of the loads of crap in Simmons and Gadz
2) Trade Yi or Bogut for something worthwhile
3) Trade Redd for something worthwhile.

I'd exhaust option 3 as we've tried Redd as the alpha dog for far too long here. If we can't get a damn thing for him, which I find it hard to believe since he's looked so highly around the league supossedly, then I'd look to trade either Bogut or Yi for someone that can come in here and make Redd play second fiddle.

[europa]

1) keep the team as is as it's impossible to get rid of the loads of crap in Simmons and Gadz
2) Trade Yi or Bogut for something worthwhile
3) Trade Redd for something worthwhile.

I'd add three more to the list:

4. Trade Mo for something worthwhile
5. Trade Villanueva for something worthwhile
6. Trade Mo & Villanueva for something worthwhile

I'm fine with any of these six options as long as the trade (or trades) clearly improve the team.

[Nowak008]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'd add three more to the list:

4. Trade Mo for something worthwhile
5. Trade Villanueva for something worthwhile
6. Trade Mo & Villanueva for something worthwhile

I'm fine with any of these six options as long as the trade (or trades) clearly improve the team.

Whats your definition of clearly getting better? It seems you only want to win now, and with our current cast of guys it looks bleak.

[DH34Phan]

4. Trade Mo for something worthwhile
5. Trade Villanueva for something worthwhile
6. Trade Mo & Villanueva for something worthwhile

Wow, you don't have an agenda.

[europa]

-= original quote snipped =-


Wow, you don't have an agenda.

That's rich coming given your stance on Redd. And please go back and read what I wrote. I said I'm fine with all six of the options. You do realize that trading Redd was on that list of six, right? So if I'm fine with all six that means I'm fine with trading Redd. The point of my post was to expand the list of options rather than being so narrow-minded and thus possibly restricting the team's chances to improve.

But you go right on thinking I was saying something else even though I clearly wasn't.

Whats your definition of clearly getting better? It seems you only want to win now, and with our current cast of guys it looks bleak.

I want to start adding the right type of players and removing the ones I don't believe fit and/or won't help this team become a contender. So I'm in favor of any move that does these things. I'm not in favor of getting rid of players who I believe can help this team contend unless it becomes absolutely clear that it needs to be done. I'm not at that point with Redd yet. I want to give him the rest of this season. If at that time it's clear he can't co-exist with a hopefully improved Bogut I'll be fine with dealing him.