Are the Raptors keeping T.J.?

Post #1 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:21 pm

Bulls fan here.

Im just wondering you guys stance on this situation. I am a huge fan of Jose Calderon and everyone in the league knows he is a free agent after this season. Jose looks like he will have plenty of interest around the league and people are going to throw crazy money at him(in my opinion).

With this being said, It makes no sense to have 2 great pgs on one team. Especially if they are getting paid alot of money.

If the Raptors do whatever it takes to keep Jose, I think it leaves T.J. as the odd man out.

Do you think the Raptors will still keep T.J. or will they look to unload him in the offseason?

DarkKnight · Post #2 » by **DarkKnight** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:24 pm

They will keep him. His injury history would decrease his value to the point where you wouldn't get fair value. You CAN keep 2 PG's on the roster anyway....Jason Kidd makes 20 million to play for 37 minutes, add in his backup for a couple million and they pay 22 mil for 48 minutes of PG play. Forderon would make about 15 million combined and provide significantly better production.

miruss2001 · Post #3 » by **miruss2001** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:24 pm

I think the general consensus is that if the right asset is offered, either guy is available. However, that asset would have to be remarkable because there seems contentment with the Raps fielding a devastating one-two punch at the point. It's worked so far, so why not hold tight?

Hit the trade board and make an offer. There are plenty of Raps fans hovering in there waiting to pounce on any trade with TOR in the title.... Zong, I'm looking at you...

T-Spot · Post #4 » by **T-Spot** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:25 pm

Priority number one:

Keep both.

If we absolutely can't, I don't see why either TJ or Calderon won't be traded (only if its a trade that would take us over the top) But after watching them drop 23 dimes on the Timberwolves, I think BC will keep them both.

dagger · Post #5 » by **dagger** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:28 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Bulls fan here.

Im just wondering you guys stance on this situation. I am a huge fan of Jose Calderon and everyone in the league knows he is a free agent after this season. Jose looks like he will have plenty of interest around the league and people are going to throw crazy money at him(in my opinion).

With this being said, It makes no sense to have 2 great pgs on one team. Especially if they are getting paid alot of money.

If the Raptors do whatever it takes to keep Jose, I think it leaves T.J. as the odd man out.

Do you think the Raptors will still keep T.J. or will they look to unload him in the offseason?

What people have to look at is our other salaries. We don't have, nor are we likely to have any time soon, a big wing salary player. For example, the Bulls have big money in Wallace, Hinrich, and now have to pay Deng and/or Gordon major money. We have Bosh at the max, but then you drop to Ford (paid less than Hinrich) and a slew of starting wing players paid at or less (in the case of Moon, way less) than the mid-level exception.

So we can afford to pile on the dollars at the point guard position for at least one more full season while we go about restructuring our SG/SF situation.

bakafool · Post #6 » by **bakafool** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:28 pm

Good luck trying to get either of our pointguards. BC seems willing to keep both of them if there are no significant offers put on the table.

Post #7 » by **Shaazzam** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:29 pm

With his injury history, it will be tough to get value for TJ. And he is still developing and is not a finished product, same with Calderon, so I don't think we actively shop them.

Our offence is initiated by the PG and they make most of the decisions in it. Not exactly groundbreaking analysis, but these two guys make everything go. Without a solid backup, (Roko Ukic possibly) this team just does not have the players on the wing to makeup for not having top tier PG's.

I don't think there are many teams that have crazy money to throw at him, but we'll see how things shake out by the deadline. BC has been on record saying Jose is not going anywhere, and he doesn't blow smoke just to blow smoke. He finds it's best to hide the truth by saying the truth, if that makes sense.

Sam Mitchell also has a long relationship with TJ, so I'm sure he would be loathe to lose him. So for my money, neither are going anywhere anytime soon. We need them both. Once we upgrade other areas, or in order to truly upgrade another position, then one may be moved, but before then? I just don't see it.

Post #8 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:30 pm

The only thing that I guess would be a concern would be going into lux land. I actually think Jose will get more money than T.J. Plus you have Parker coming up, you have to make a decision on Rasho as well.

LLJ · Post #9 » by **LLJ** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:30 pm

I don't even think we have a choice. Who's gonna take him? Not to be smarmy, but use your head and think about it.

And with that neck in mind, do people really think we'd be like, "Oh, we're SOOO stupid, with our injury prone PG in TJ Ford, we're SURE to give up Calderon! We don't need him at all..."

dagger · Post #10 » by **dagger** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:33 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:The only thing that I guess would be a concern would be going into lux land. I actually think Jose will get more money than T.J. Plus you have Parker coming up, you have to make a decision on Rasho as well.

Put it this way: Parker is hitting 33, and this franchise will not throw major money at a guy who will be 34 when his contract expires. Pretty much same thing for Rasho. We can either trade him this summer, or let his deal expire but no way he's a long-term piece here at his current salary. Bargnani is the starting C, and I'd guess we can come up with an adequate backup in 18 months to allow Rasho to go, or we could bring him back for a smaller deal.

Post #11 » by **Schad** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:33 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:The only thing that I guess would be a concern would be going into lux land. I actually think Jose will get more money than T.J. Plus you have Parker coming up, you have to make a decision on Rasho as well.

First, MLSE (the group that owns the Raptors) seems to have no qualms about paying the luxury tax. If the team is winning, they will recoup some of those costs through sales, but more importantly, because winning increases equity.

Second, no decision needed on Parker and Rasho, IMO; they will either be used as expiring contracts next year in trade, or allowed to become free agents and (likely) walk. Neither is a high priority.

General Ford · Post #12 » by **General Ford** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:34 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Bulls fan here.

Im just wondering you guys stance on this situation. I am a huge fan of Jose Calderon and everyone in the league knows he is a free agent after this season. Jose looks like he will have plenty of interest around the league and people are going to throw crazy money at him(in my opinion).

With this being said, It makes no sense to have 2 great pgs on one team. Especially if they are getting paid alot of money.

If the Raptors do whatever it takes to keep Jose, I think it leaves T.J. as the odd man out.

Do you think the Raptors will still keep T.J. or will they look to unload him in the offseason?

As you know he is restricted so chances are they will match any offer made for him then trade him for a player we sorely need in our lineup. there is no reason not to keep him and trade him when he's locked into a long term deal.

DarkKnight · Post #13 » by **DarkKnight** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:34 pm

Additional Data:

Pro-rating each of calderon and ford to 24 minutes of play time and then adding their stats gives you the following 48-minute player. Keep in mind that 2 guys together for 48 minutes should be better in practice than on paper, since they will be fresher, allows the coach to stick with a hot hand, don't have to worry about foul trouble, and can spell each other in case of injury.

Forderon, 24 minutes each proration:

21.7 PPG
4.4 RPG
13.5 APG
2.0 SPG
3.4 TOPG

Find me a PG tandem in the NBA that makes 15-16 million and provides that kind of production and the benefits of a dual-PG system as outlined above....I don't think there is one, especially if you dont count the guys on their rookie deals who will be looking for big extensions (Paul, Deron)

Raptorsrock · Post #14 » by **Raptorsrock** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:35 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:The only thing that I guess would be a concern would be going into lux land. I actually think Jose will get more money than T.J. Plus you have Parker coming up, you have to make a decision on Rasho as well.

Parker and Rasho are the least of our worries. We either let them walk or sign them for cheap

DarkKnight · Post #15 » by **DarkKnight** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:37 pm

Raptorsrock wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Parker and Rasho are the least of our worries. We either let them walk or sign them for cheap

Don't underestimate Parker's value to the team. He'll be back.

Post #16 » by **Shaazzam** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:38 pm

DarkKnight wrote:
Don't underestimate Parker's value to the team. He'll be back.

I don't think he'll make more than his current contract thought. His D has slid this year, where will it be at next year?

DarkKnight · Post #17 » by **DarkKnight** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:39 pm

I think 3.5 to 4.5 million would make sense. Possibly a 2 year deal plus a team option, 4.5->4->3.5, something like that.

General Ford · Post #18 » by **General Ford** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:47 pm

DarkKnight wrote:I think 3.5 to 4.5 million would make sense. Possibly a 2 year deal plus a team option, 4.5->4->3.5, something like that.

AP won't be back unless as a backup. He has already lost some of the quicks he had last year. Swing players are the most athletic in the sport, you need guys in that position who are in their prime all the time. (with the exception of MJ)

Grizzled · Post #19 » by **Grizzled** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:50 pm

G-UNIT · Post #20 » by **G-UNIT** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:57 pm

DarkKnight wrote:They will keep him. His injury history would decrease his value to the point where you wouldn't get fair value. You CAN keep 2 PG's on the roster anyway....Jason Kidd makes 20 million to play for 37 minutes, add in his backup for a couple million and they pay 22 mil for 48 minutes of PG play. Forderon would make about 15 million combined and provide significantly better production.

this is the exact thing i was thinking of, 15 million for 48 min of sick PG play is worth it. Problem is when TJ is really healthy, will he like coming off the bench all the time...