Cuban - Harris top 5 PG

[catalyst]

Harris On Path To Be Top-Five Point Guard?
February 11, 2008 - 4:12 pm
Star-Ledger -
The Dallas Mavericks believe Devin Harris' future is so bright that they are unwilling to part ways with him in order to land Jason Kidd, even if that means not keeping up with the Lakers and Suns, who both recently completed significant trades.

"He can be a top-five point guard," said owner Mark Cuban. "I don't think there's any question he has that potential. We track every number known to man, and he's tracking on that path right now." [READ]

LINK

[tosi]

Is their any other way to raise the value of your players?

[catalyst]

Mavs are not trading him. Too much blood sweat and tears into his development from the entire staff.

[JES12]

Yahoo sports (based off opinion) and Hollinger (based off stats) both have him at # 9 right now. It's very concieveable that he can be top 5 soon.

[Rand10]

Harris is putting up nearly identical numbers per minute as Tony Parker did in his 4th year. Then factor in Harris' defense and there's no question in my mind he can be top 5.

[dirkforpres]

I think its obvious that he has more than enough potential to be top 5

[myconsumerclub]

absolutely he's going to be top 5 and you dam sure don't trade that for a washed up PG like Kidd. We need a SG so if VC would exchange places with Stack and Jet then we could talk.

[studcrackers]

kidd is not washed up, i think he demonstrated that yesterday. i wouldnt trade harris for him and would rather trade for a sg/sf but i just had to make it clear after people were arguing for kidd after he torched the mavs yesterday. he just plays on a team thats not so great

[your_dallas_mavericks]

C'mon guys! Harris has to be a top 5 PG, we absolutely suck without him right now. Did you all see the stats with and without him in the lineup? The dude is our MVP! Not Dirk, Stack, Terry, or Josh can hold a candle to him at this point. We need him back healthy in order to make a San Antonio type of roll towards the playoffs...

[mrmreg]

absolutely he's going to be top 5

Absolutely? Maybe he could be, but absolutely? Not sure how one could objectively arrive at that conclusion based on what we've seen so far. He's not even top 10 now, but a few of the better PGs are getting up there in age, so lets say in a couple years Nash, Kidd, and Billups are either retired or have fallen off a lot. So lets take a look at some of the young PGs Devin will have to compete with to be top 5. Chris Paul and Derron Williams. Forget passing either of them. Baron Davis seems like he's been around forever, but he's still only 28, so he's likley got a lot of good years left. Can't see Harris catching him. Are Dwayne Wade and/or Allen Iverson PGs? I'd say they're more combo guards, but they both pass more effectively than Harris. What about this Jose Calderon kid up in Toronto. I have to admit I've seen very little of him, but he's putting up some awfully nice PG stats. Also, by the time the older PGs have diminshed, how much better will some of the young PGs like Mike Conley of Memphis or Derrick Rose of the other Memphis be? I suspect a few of those guys will have passed Harris as well.

Harris might subjectively squeak into the top 10 at his postion at some point, but only the purest Mavs' homer will ever really consider him top 5.

and you dam sure don't trade that for a washed up PG like Kidd. We need a SG so if VC would exchange places with Stack and Jet then we could talk.

Washed up Kidd has as many triple doubles in the last month as Harris has double doubles for his career.

In 3 1/2 seasons of basketball Devin Harris has achieved a double-double twice. Twice?

40 year old Jason Kidd will probably still be better than Devin Harris.

[JES12]

not even top 10 now

Actually, he is.

#9 based of stats...Holllinger...ESPN
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=pg&seasonType=2&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fsort%3dper%26qual%3dtrue%26pos%3dpg%26seasonType%3d2

#9 based off opinion...Kelly Dwyer...Yahoo sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/nba_experts/post/Whaddayouthink-the-NBA-s-best-point-guard-?urn=nba,64158

[JES12]

40 year old Jason Kidd will probably still be better than Devin Harris.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-131/Jason-Kidd-vs--Devin-Harris--in-Numbers.html

Offensive efficiency of the team Harris runs: second in the league
Offensive efficiency of the team Kidd runs: 25th

Harris current salary: Just under $4,000,000
Kidd current salary: Just under $20,000,000

Harris's age: 24
Kidd's age: 34

Devin Harris's PER: 18.64
Jason Kidd's PER: 16.06

According to 82games, for every 100 possessions Devin Harris is on the floor, Dallas scores almost 12 points more than the same number of possesions without Harris.
With Kidd, that number is five.

When Harris is on the court, the Mavericks have outscored opponents by 217 points this season. When he is off the court, the Mavericks have been outscored by 11. Harris is, therefore, +228.

When Kidd is on the court, the Nets have been outscored by 154. When he is off the court the Nets have been outscored by 116. Kidd is, therefore, -38.

Devin Harris's record in the NBA Finals: 2-4.
Jason Kidd's record in the NBA Finals: 2-8.

[catalyst]

They are different point guards and do different things. I think mavs should stick with harris, and get kidd without trading harris. If not, they should slug on thru and try to overcome the issues they are having right now.

[DDansby123]

They are different point guards and do different things.

Exactly. But beyond that, whether Kidd or Harris should be our PG is NOT a matter of which player is better. It's a matter of which player is a better FIT for the team as it's currently constructed, and you can't answer that question based on stats alone. Without question, IMO, that's Jason Kidd (for all the reasons I've stated previously). Doesn't mean we should automatically trade for him, but it weighs heavily in his favor.

The obvious flip side of that coin is this: should we be searching for players who fit with our current group, or should we be changing the current group? In other words, even if Kidd is a better fit, why not change the surrounding players so that Harris becomes the better fit for the team?

Regardless, our problems start at the top, so I think a change among our top 3 players is the best option, and a change in our top 5 is the absolute minimum.

[mrmreg]

Offensive efficiency of the team Harris runs: second in the league
Offensive efficiency of the team Kidd runs: 25th

Is that comparison apples to apples in any way?

Harris current salary: Just under $4,000,000
Kidd current salary: Just under $20,000,000

Kidd makes more cause he's a lot better. And the point is???

Harris's age: 24
Kidd's age: 34

So you're saying Kidd is older?

Devin Harris's PER: 18.64
Jason Kidd's PER: 16.06

Those stats are flat out dumb. First of all, per minute stats by themselves are silly, then to try and "pace adjust" the stats??? Come on. They friggin have Jason Terry ahead of Kidd. Would any basketball person in their right mind believe that to be the case?

According to 82games, for every 100 possessions Devin Harris is on the floor, Dallas scores almost 12 points more than the same number of possesions without Harris.
With Kidd, that number is five.

When Harris is on the court, the Mavericks have outscored opponents by 217 points this season. When he is off the court, the Mavericks have been outscored by 11. Harris is, therefore, +228.

When Kidd is on the court, the Nets have been outscored by 154. When he is off the court the Nets have been outscored by 116. Kidd is, therefore, -38.

More rediculous stats. For one thing, Kidd is almost always on the floor, unlike Harris. For another, when one team rests it's superstar, often the other team does as well.

Devin Harris's record in the NBA Finals: 2-4.
Jason Kidd's record in the NBA Finals: 2-8.

Devin Harris started in three NBA finals games. The Mavs record in those three games: 0-3

In one of the Mav wins, Devin put up 1 pt, 2 assists, and 0 rebounds.

For the whole Heat series Devin averaged 7.3 pts, 1.1 assists, and 0.8 rebounds.

Kidd in the finals averaged 20.1 pts, 8.6 assists, and 6.6 rebounds.

I'm sure Harris somehow had a better PER though???

[JES12]

Ahh, mmreg gets all upset and reads the facts the way he want to. A boo hoo!

Harris is a top 10 PG whether you want to admit it or not. You Harris hating bias never seams to be lifted.

[etopn23]

^ And you're trying to make the absurd argument that Harris is a comparable player to Kidd. Honestly, are you THAT deluded? There are extraneous circumstances behind every stat you posted and you KNOW this.

As someone who's seen both players play live...who's actually followed their careers... Kidd is undoubtedly Harris' superior.

That being said, I think Carter would actually be a better asset for the Mavs. Harris can manage this team adequately and he's only going to get better at this point.

[itsgotime]

i agree that Carter is probably the right answer to the equation. He's availiable at a much lesser price than Kidd (not for a dump, but it seems NJ is done with him and noone else wants him). He plays the position that we are desperately needing filled. He's athletic, and drives to the hole. He's a really good passer, and knows the double team well.

Carter is our best chance at improving the Mavs. Now, how little are the Nets willing to accept for him? What are their main wants in a trade for him? I think JET has to be in the trade for him, after that NJ can have their pick of the rest of our roster minus Harris, Josh and Dirk.

[JES12]

^ And you're trying to make the absurd argument that Harris is a comparable player to Kidd. Honestly, are you THAT deluded? There are extraneous circumstances behind every stat you posted and you KNOW this.

As someone who's seen both players play live...who's actually followed their careers... Kidd is undoubtedly Harris' superior.

That being said, I think Carter would actually be a better asset for the Mavs. Harris can manage this team adequately and he's only going to get better at this point.

Okay, fisrt of all, those were all stats quoted from an article; I did not look those up myself, edit weaker argument, and all.

Second of all, I never said Harris was "comparable" to Kidd as they have completley different styles. "Comparable" is your word!

Thirdly, Even if they did have similar styles, I never said Harris' brightest day would be as good as Kidd's, but I do believe anything from here on out by Harris would be better than anything for Kidd...here on out.

[JES12]

i agree that Carter is probably the right answer to the equation. He's availiable at a much lesser price than Kidd (not for a dump, but it seems NJ is done with him and noone else wants him). He plays the position that we are desperately needing filled. He's athletic, and drives to the hole. He's a really good passer, and knows the double team well.

Carter is our best chance at improving the Mavs. Now, how little are the Nets willing to accept for him? What are their main wants in a trade for him? I think JET has to be in the trade for him, after that NJ can have their pick of the rest of our roster minus Harris, Josh and Dirk.

I agree. Carter would be a better fit in Dallas than Kidd.

I also agree that the trade starts with Terry or Stack, but I do not go as far as adding Bass or Diop to the mix like suggested on the trade forum. Diop will be needed against Yao, Duncan and Shaq in the playoffs. bass is too good of a 22 yo prospect to add in.

Maybe I'm a under-valuing Carter, but I do see him as the next Michael Finley and Jerry Stackhouse....an athletic swingman turned into jumpshooter after age 30. The difference is VC is softer defensivly and more expensive than Stack.

If it is Terry that leaves in that trade, then Stack need to go for a backup PG.