Hear me out..Trade idea

[G_MoNeY]

First of all, this is highly unlikely to happen because it's within the division and the team I'm mentioning the initial reaction from everyone here will be an emphatic no.

NJ Trades : RJ + Magloire + Marcus Williams
NY Trades : Curry + Lee + Richardson

Now..I realize Curry hasn't had a good career thus far, he's shown glimpses of how dominant he could be and has the potential to be a pretty good player. Before I say anymore, I would seriously consider asking NY if Curry's heart is still in the game of basketball. If so, we get a big who can score on the block, rebound and defend the bigger bigs in the West. Kidd's presence (yes, only if Kidd stays) would help Curry tremendously. VC's perimeter game fits well with Currys post game. We also get David Lee, who is a promising player and could fit in at SF for RJ. He can run the break, can rebound, can finish strong. Richardson was thrown in to make contracts work out, he has the ability to hit the 3 we're looking for, albeit, not very consistent. That could change with more open looks.

We lose RJ (last ditch effort to make this team work with Kidd/VC) ... we lose Marcus (but it's a sweetner for NY to make the deal) He hasn't lived up to his potential and we can find a replacement in free agency for the rest of the year...and hopefully find a young PG with promise in the draft. Magloire is an expiring.

Thoughts??

[ViNNNsanity]

You must really hate RJ to trade him for that garbage.

The only decent player I would see in that trade is Lee, but even so, we already have Boone.

[Serpo]

Well you'd need someone to constantly keep Curry motivated or he'll suck like he does in NY .

Since nobody ever managed to do it yet it should be quite hard .

Well since Lee is involved i'd give it a try but NY would decline i think , they prefer to keep Lee .

A motivated Curry that trys on both ends would be scrary but i don't know if thats possible.

[ViNNNsanity]

A motivated and healthy Nenad>Curry. RJ>any player on the Knicks

[G_MoNeY]

it's not that I dislike RJ, its that he's the most attractive piece outside of Kidd. I think Curry gives us what we need to an extent, I'll have to admit I'm scared of his conditioning and heart, however Kidd is one of the few who could really show what he's got, the other being Nash.

I think NY would consider it, because they're getting perhaps a future starting PG, a young wing that can score and an expiring contract. Us taking on Richardson and Currys contract saves them money -- but is it worth it for us? Depends on if management is truly wanting to win or save money. I think this trade makes us better overall, IF BIG IF, Curry plays like he should.

Kidd/VC/Lee/Boone/Curry

[S.I.C. GM]

You must really hate RJ to trade him for that garbage.

The only decent player I would see in that trade is Lee, but even so, we already have Boone.

It is not that he hates RJ, HE JUST LOVES VC. He thinks RJ is stopping VC from playing better.

RJ takes too many shots
RJ doesnt pass the ball
RJ has more balls then VC
RJ is aggressive all the time
RJ takes more FT because he is always going towards the basket
RJ always runs on the breaks
RJ is leading the Nets in scoring

That is why he wants RJ to go. To suggest a trade with M. Will for Curry and Lee for another PF and C when we have some pretty good ones.

IT IS JUST THE VC LOVE!!!! <as he sings, "Love hurts">

[S.I.C. GM]

it's not that I dislike RJ, its that he's the most attractive piece outside of Kidd. I think Curry gives us what we need to an extent, I'll have to admit I'm scared of his conditioning and heart, however Kidd is one of the few who could really show what he's got, the other being Nash.

I think NY would consider it, because they're getting perhaps a future starting PG, a young wing that can score and an expiring contract. Us taking on Richardson and Currys contract saves them money -- but is it worth it for us? Depends on if management is truly wanting to win or save money. I think this trade makes us better overall, IF BIG IF, Curry plays like he should.

Kidd/VC/Lee/Boone/Curry

Come on, G.

Lee cant even shot. He doesnt even have a 5 ft let along a 10-15 ft shot.

[ViNNNsanity]

Kristic>Curry That trade severely handicaps us on the fast break, and we don't gain much (if anything) in the halfcourt. He's not quick enough to be relied on defensively. Can't run, can't pass, and shouldn't be shooting. The only way he can be effective is clearing paths to the basket, scoring when he gets position in the circle to avoid the many offensive fouls he creates, and boxing out.

Lee may be a SLIGHTLY better hustler player than Boone, but Boone plays better without the ball.

I like Q somewhat defensively, but he's as inconsistent of a scorer as Boki. I would take him, except Boki's contract expires, and there's probably something better to do in that situation.

And RJ...well he's a consistent 20pt scorer capable of playing 2 positions, and defending 3. He's one of the best on the break and is a great 2nd option. He's fast, strong, atheletic, can defend, shoot the open J, get to the line, moves extremely well without the ball, great in the locker room, hardworking, has experienced finals, unselfish, and unprimed.

Kidd/VC/Rj/Swift/Kristic

Only thing stopping VC is a crap coach. Even with a bum ankle, VC can be more effective than he was playing after injury.

[vincecarter4pres]

Not that I even love this trade, but I wouldbe more inclinded too trade RJ/Magloire and filler like Malik Allen or A. Wright for Randolph and Q. Rich.

Starting lineup of:
PG Kidd
SG VC
SF Q Rich
PF Randolph
C Boone of Curly if he gets healthy.

Boki, SWAT, M.Will, Boone or Curly, depending on who starts off the bench.
Pretty nice squad, although again severly defensively challenged, and does it really get us past the Pistons or Cavs(probrably, almost definitely) or the Celtics or Magic(highly unlikely)?

That team would score in the bunches even in off nights, but they would also give up alot of points.

Q Rich, Kidd, Boone, SWAT and even Curly are good defenders, but calling Randolph and Carter, along with Boki and Marcus suspect defenders might be being kind.

Although once again, this without question more of a West Coast type of team.

2 Guys that absolutley demand double teams in Randolph and Carter, and Absolute beast of a rebounding team down to the bench, wings that can light it up from 3, arguably the best PG in the game, and a semi-good fast breaking team with a pretty srong bench.

Once again, I think this trade isa major improvement over what we have, but does it gaet us over the hump of the C's or the Magic, along with the likes of San An, Dallas, Suns, Lakers or the Nuggets, if we make it to the Finals this year or next?

Altough, I guarentee Kidd makes Randolph even more of a beast, gets Q Rich, as long as he is not injured, more open looks and makes his game more consistant and motivates everyone.

Even if we did trade Kidd in the offseason, this deal really doesn't add much salary as RJ and Randolph's contracts are almost identical and Q rich only has 2 years left on his deal.

I would be a little biased towards this deal because the quality bigs that are left are pretty much gone, and in my opinion besides his complete lack of defense Zach is a certrified double double guy for years, with pretty good size, a serious all around scoring game, and in all reality he is said to be greedier and less of a passer out of the post then he really is.
I think he is a competitor at heart, and playing with the likes off Kidd and Co. can only help that.

He was never close to my first choice in available big men, but Rod dropped the ball on numerous trades already, was half fleeced on the KG one, although Al Jeff is panning out, and this team needs a major shake up and a legit top 8-10 big man.

On top of this Q. Rich is one of my favorite players, and is completely underrated.
Yes he injury prone, but:
He can hit the 3 ball like mad.
He has a great post game for a SG/SF at 6 6
He is a hell of a rebounder
He is a very good defender
He can run the break very well
He can pass
He is a competitor with heart.

I feel like he is just straight up apathetic on the Knicks, and still sour he is no longer on the Suns or Clippers.

Decent if not very good trade for us.

[G_MoNeY]

[quote="S.I.C. GM"][/quote]

uncalled and childish SIC. We all know what happens when VC touches the ball and the offense runs through him, if you need a recap look at the last few games. All of them wins, coincidence?

RJ should be the odd man out for us to either obtain a big or get a shooter. Why have 2 players who do nearly the same things, when clearly the guy I "love" is doing them much better. Your comments are just a cop out to what really is the truth, and you know it.

My whole point in any trade, many of which involve RJ is this. Kidd and VC's windows are closing, we are close to contending, if we deal Kidd, we deal VC too..which means start over. Why not keep both, surround them better with things we lack and try to contend. End of story!

[EFF]

Last thing we need is another player with potential but no motivation (curry) to compound our problems with chronic lethargy. Q is decent, a big 2 who can post up and shoot from long range. But we also dont need his 30 something shot percentage.

I dont think we need to trade for bigs anymore like curry and lee. We have something that could already work and adding more would just add confusion to rotations. Let's ride our frontcourt and see where they can take us...for now.

I think one of our biggest problems as far as personnel goes is honestly a capable backup 2 guard. Antoine Wright does nothing to take the burden off of vince. He doesn't make helpful decisions with the ball and we basically forfeit the position once we sub him in. He throws our whole game off by turning down shots and creating meaningless ball movement which helps the D zone in. That's about when our game gets all out of wack and we fall behind by 20. All blame obviosuly doesn't fall on him but i think he hurts the team a lot more than we realize. Right now we have a solid bench with Wright as the achilles' heel.

i think our best acquisition in this trade would be Q. His contract is kinda big though and I wouldn't trade RJ to get him.

[etopn23]

We should of gone for Gasol. We could of EASILY offered a better package than the Lakers.

[halfHAVOC]

you're lookin at every possible way for vince carter to do better than RJ.

[G_MoNeY]

newsflash, he is.

Their games are too similar we need another dimension a shooter or big man to score on the block.

[ViNNNsanity]

newsflash, he is.

Their games are too similar we need another dimension a shooter or big man to score on the block.

Being the big VC fan that you are, I cannot understand how you think their games are too similar. The fact that we have this Big 3 allows us to be a good fastbreaking and halfcourt team. That right there is dimension.

They both have similar bodies, but their roles and understanding of the game are different. Example, VC is aggressive in that he always looks for a way to break down an entire team defense to find an easy way to score. RJ is aggressive in that he looks for his own shot or to get to the line. There's many more differences but I shouldn't even have to explain. Besides I don't think you would give up 2 Vince Carters, 2 Mjs, 2 Magic Johnsons if you had the chance, would you?

The benefit of having 2 perimeter 20pt consistent scoring threats that are big/atheletic enough to finish in the post is a HUGE advantage. Getting to the line, collapsing defenders, ball movement shouldn't be a problem. This is why I'm so pissed at our coach for designing an offense dedicated to jumpshooting.

The only things I think this team needs is a new coach and a better bench. Drop Boki and Wright.

[treiz]

To be honest that's a pretty horrible trade, we have too many bodies in the 4 and 5 position I don't think adding more bodies there while losing RJ and M.Williams isn't gonna help us.

[EFF]

I think RJ and Vince have limited chemistry. Jefferson benefits from carter being on the floor but doesn't return the favor.

And we couldnt have easily gotten Pau because the Griz were looking for cap relief. We can't give them that.

[ViNNNsanity]

I think RJ and Vince have limited chemistry. Jefferson benefits from carter being on the floor but doesn't return the favor.

And we couldnt have easily gotten Pau because the Griz were looking for cap relief. We can't give them that.

Rj makes life easier for VC, too. As much as a fan I am of Vince, I know he's not the type of player who could sustain 100% selfish effort. He will not attack the paint or run the floor a full game. He likes to take over games in a nonselfish way, getting teammates involved and making life easier. Not to mention, as talented as VC is, basketball is still a team game. He needs someone to differ off double-triple teams.

I think you are only seeing limited chemistry because of the way the offense is setup. A penetrating ( ) RJ opens a lot of room for VC to get good looks and to go to work. There are limited plays when we see that (Franks offense is based on motion sets for open jumpers), but when called..they have alot of success. Example gamewinning drive, dish, 3pt buzzer. A drive an dish by VC to a cutting RJ always results in a dunk. Rj will sell his body an entire 48 min. He will run the floor hard, make harder cuts, dive for loose balls, attack the paint, and defend the 4 when needed. By differing to RJ at times, just gives VC more time/rest to take over when needed.

[G_MoNeY]

-= original quote snipped =-



Being the big VC fan that you are, I cannot understand how you think their games are too similar. The fact that we have this Big 3 allows us to be a good fastbreaking and halfcourt team. That right there is dimension.

They both have similar bodies, but their roles and understanding of the game are different. Example, VC is aggressive in that he always looks for a way to break down an entire team defense to find an easy way to score. RJ is aggressive in that he looks for his own shot or to get to the line. There's many more differences but I shouldn't even have to explain. Besides I don't think you would give up 2 Vince Carters, 2 Mjs, 2 Magic Johnsons if you had the chance, would you?

The benefit of having 2 perimeter 20pt consistent scoring threats that are big/atheletic enough to finish in the post is a HUGE advantage. Getting to the line, collapsing defenders, ball movement shouldn't be a problem. This is why I'm so pissed at our coach for designing an offense dedicated to jumpshooting.

The only things I think this team needs is a new coach and a better bench. Drop Boki and Wright.

VC is not on the same level as MJ or Magic, don't even think to compare them. That's not the case here anyways. Bottom line, follow the lead from PHX, you won't win a ring with 2 perimeter 20+ scorers. You need a presence in the paint. That dimension we lack, along with shooting. I tried to address both in this trade. Honestly think we're better overall after this deal.

[cdash]

I dont really know where to post this, and theres a good chance its already been touched upon, but I dont feel like scouring your board to find it, but can you guys think of any reason Indiana and New Jersey would do that JO for VC+change trade? I really dont see why either team would do it. I am a Pacer fan, and I want nothing to do with Carter. He gives a lackidaisical effort when flanked by Kidd and Jefferson, I cant imagine where playing alongside Diener (Christ almighty he really starts for us) and Granger would motivate him. I dont think JO makes you guys much better either.