Travis Diener

[Grang33r]

I heard this stat tonight watching NBA fast break on ESPN2. I was at a bar and they began the show at 7 talking about the Pacers and before the turned the sound from that to the Pacers game, i was able to see them talk about Diener. The hosts were very surprised by Diener and they listed his stats in the past few games so i came home and looked them up. Something really good.

In the last 4 games-

Pts - 36
Asst- 29
TO - 2

In about 143 minutes of play, Diener has only had 2 turnovers. His scoring is limited and assists also are not coming that great but 29 assists by Diener isn't that bad for what alot of media expected of him. He's turned the corner the last month or so and has showed alot. Thoughts?

[PR07]

He's done a pretty good job of starting. It's really a breath of fresh air to have a PG that can really shoot the ball from longrange effectively. Still, I think he's be best served as a backup, but that doesn't mean he hasn't done a good job.

[joew8302]

I am not now, nor ever will I be a Diener fan. IMO he takes poor shots far too often which explains his poor shoting %, which by the way is why he was brought here. Also, his defense makes it like 4 on 5 out there. I don't think Diener is an NBA calibre player, bottom line.

That said he has been playing about as well as he is capable of here lately. His lack of turnovers is impressive and a nice change of pace from Jamal.

[ajizzle]

Well, if Diener weren't an NBA-caliber player, would he be in the NBA??? I mean, even D-League players are seen as NBA-caliber, so give the man some credit for what he has accomplished.

Now, he may not be an NBA-starter... I'll give you that much, but he's done more than he's been expected to do. He's been the best PG this year for the team, and his Nash-like ability to find open cutters has really opened up the game. He's our most consistent driving player... every game he challenges the lane and draws attention to get others open looks.

His poor shooting could be attributed to many factors: Bad ankle, playing against "NBA-caliber" D for the first time, more minutes than expected, still very green and inexperienced.

Bottom line: Travis has done more than we initially asked him to do. He's definitely playing above his contract worth, and if we get one of his big brothers in Ridnour, Hinrich, or J Williams, he would be a perfect backup for Obie's system.

[joew8302]

I think you are a tad over the top with your praise of him. The next Nash like pass I see him throw will be the first. Yes, Diener is in the NBA. I think that is a mistake and after his time is up in Indiana it will be possible 10 day contracts and the CBA or something. My understanding was Travis was brought here to shoot, and he hasn't done an overly good job of that. He hasn't shot well when he has been healthy or injured, the exuses are too much. I am glad you like Diener, but I will stand by my statement Diener is not an NBA calibre point guard, he just lucked out because the Pacers front office overrated him.

[count55]

Well, considering the fact that there are only maybe 8 or 10 "NBA calibre" point guards in the league, that's probably not unfair criticism of Travis, but I digress.

Given the state of the world and the fact that we're only paying the guy about $5 mil over his three year contract, he's proven a competent backup and worth his contract. If you're looking for him to hit some shots, play solid in short starting stints, and be a nice player to have if you ever get a real point guard, then great. If you're looking for him to be the next Steve Nash, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

[mizzoupacers]

Diener's been pretty much what I expected. Not a bad guy to have for what the Pacers are paying him. He is competent at running an offense, and opponents have to respect his outside shooting, which if nothing else makes it easier for his teammates to get good shots (at least you would think).

On a truly good team he would probably be the third-string pg and see only occasional playing time. But for a team like the Pacers, he is an adequate fill-in. I like the guy's effort and don't mind at all having him on our team.

[joew8302]

Umm there are definetly more than 8-10 caliber point guards. You guys did see the immortal Jacque Vaughn tear him up right?

[count55]

Umm there are definetly more than 8-10 caliber point guards. You guys did see the immortal Jacque Vaughn tear him up right?

Name 'em...

Right now, I can come up with:

Deron Williams
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker (though I really consider the last two 'tweeners)

I'm sure I've missed some, but there's still a long way to go before you come up with significantly more than 8-10.

Most of the guys playing point in the league are either journeyman with significant flaws or converted 2's.

[ajizzle]

Don't confuse "NBA-caliber" with "NBA Superstar" gentlemen... Baron Davis is a good PG. Devin Harris is too. Hinrich, Bibby, and there a couple other guys who are very good, but they are all in the L, last I checked.

NBA-caliber means that they have the ability to play and be paid like an NBA player. Every player has flaws, and many times, we get too specific w/ what a prototypical player should be for every position.

Back to Diener... I see both he and many other players make Nash-like plays every night. IT'S THE NBA!!! He makes good plays just like everyone else does. The difference between him and Steve Nash is that Nash does it about 10 more times a game, and much better too. I saw Vince Carter making dunks in college that some pros couldn't do. Does that mean Vince in college wasn't NBA-ready???

My point being, Diener has done well and done more than what was expected of him. No, he's not Nash. Yes, he's filled in for us and rec'd more PT than he may have earned. Do I hold that against him? NOT AT ALL!! B/c I've seen what Owens does on a nightly basis for us, I'd take Travis over him every time. The offense runs better when he's at point, and another year in this system could benefit both him and the team exponentially.

[cdash]

Umm there are definetly more than 8-10 caliber point guards. You guys did see the immortal Jacque Vaughn tear him up right?

Name 'em...

Right now, I can come up with:

Deron Williams
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Steve Nash
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker (though I really consider the last two 'tweeners)

I'm sure I've missed some, but there's still a long way to go before you come up with significantly more than 8-10.

Most of the guys playing point in the league are either journeyman with significant flaws or converted 2's.

Monta Ellis is a tweener; Billups and Parker are legit point guards, no question about it. The real issue with these last few posts is that everyone will define "NBA-caliber" differently. Just for fun, and because I am not allowed to sleep, here is my list, roughly in order of who I think is the best:
Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Deron Williams, Baron Davis, Chauncey Billups, Jose Calderon (most efficient player I have ever seen), Tony Parker, Andre Miller, Devin Harris.
Beyond that, the lines are blurred a little on who is and who isnt a "point guard". Among them are:
Allen Iverson, Gilbert Arenas, Monta Ellis, Dwyane Wade, etc.

[joew8302]

Umm there are legitimate NBA PG's that are not superstars, you do know that, correct?

Jarret Jack
Steve Blake
Beno Udrih
Mike Bibby
Baron Davis
Derek Fisher
Sam Cassell
Sebastian Telfair
Marco Jaric
Mo Williams
Earl Watson
Rafer Alston
Jameer Nelson
Jason Williams
Raymond Felton
Rajon Rondo

and the list could keep going. I personally would not take Diener over one player I have listed here. I think he is a notch below them all when you take his poor shooting and non existent defense into account. Just my opinion though.