Calderon slowly becoming the leader

[bane_dd]

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Wow I didn't know you were that much against Calderon. If I understood your point of view I would have realized why you like TJ so much.

Absolute truth.

[Tha Cynic]

I don't see any more leadership qualities from Calderon than I see from Bosh or TJ. Bosh usually turns it up a notch during clutch situations and since TJ has come back, he's looked every bit like a leader, constantly talking and getting his teammates the ball in great positions. Being able to shoot the ball does not make you a great leader.

You're undervaluing the impact of other players on this team.

[teamLeiweke]

Jose Calderon is amazing.

[CalderonFTW]

lets revisit this topic after each and every game...


After the Nets game....My thoughts are still the same...

He sure is looking like he is on the verge of taking charge....

[ScorKreaDagger]

What's FTW?

Edit: No obscenities, please.

[KJS1508]

If leading us to a mediocre under-achieving type of record is what you want, then go ahead.

How are you any different from the Calderon homers. They are both good players and we need both to be healthy and playing well to have a shot in the playoffs. IMO I like the way it is set up right now with Calderon starting and TJ playing with the second unit.

[ilikecb4]

tj is hurt...calderon is not...


calderon is an-all star...tj is not...

why are we still even talking about tj ford?

he's hurt, he's on bench..he's trying to find his way back...


Calderon is playing amazing

[WaltFrazier]

Jose follows the Servant Leader model of leadership, as evidenced by passing out Gatorade at halftime, and dime during the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servant_leadership

[gei]

Wow... it's amusing how offended some people get at the OP's comment.

Jose IS the leader. He has been for a while. In crunch time, he decides what to do, not Bosh. Of course, that's also the job of a PG, to "lead" the team.

In a tight spot though, I'm just as confident in Jose with the ball as I am with Bosh. Probably more so with Jose.

[Seasontickets]

Calderon's attitude is what's put him in this spot. Hopefully, he can continue to improve especially on defense.

[Sister]

Chris Bosh's comment on the post game talk with Leo was telling.

When asked about Jose's play, CB4 said he is playing outstanding and that we (the Raptors) go as Jose's goes (or as far as Jose bring us).

[Lambda]

This is what i dont get with this board and it's bias.

Calderon scores big on good percentage, we lose, "he's our leader".

Ford scores big on good percentage, we lose, "I hope he get's injured"

edit: what was different from this game and the game TJ had against GW, other than the fans putting down TJ and prasing jose?

its the way both of them lost the game.

if it wasn't for jose this game would have been a blowout. Bosh was out of it, bargs can't carry the team, and tj is still getting into game shape. Only after jose realized all these options were exhausted did he try to take over the game.

In contrast, tj doesn't exhaust all his options. Whenever he is on the floor he thinks he is numero uno. He thinks he is the franchise and he thinks he should carry the team on his back. This isn't a bad thing, but this role is better left to bosh. If he played more like jose and tried to faciliate and defer to bosh more often, then he would be looked at the same way as.

also, jose lost to the defending champs, tj lost to golden state, i team that we should be able to beat.

[Reignman]

[quote="Lambda"][/quote]

Your post contradicts itself. When Jose tried taking over the game in SA he became "numero uno" as you put it, because no one else was doing anything worth a damn. Now earlier in the season, when CB4 wasn't upto speed and AB couldn't hit the ocean with a stone, TJ also became "numero uno" (think 1st game against Boston) and brought the team back. It's the EXACT SAME THING, but people will somehow make Jose look like a selfless player while TJ is some kind of ego maniac.

Enough with the name-calling.

[The_Hater]

Your post contradicts itself. When Jose tried taking over the game in SA he became "numero uno" as you put it, because no one else was doing anything worth a damn. Now earlier in the season, when CB4 wasn't upto speed and AB couldn't hit the ocean with a stone, TJ also became "numero uno" (think 1st game against Boston) and brought the team back. It's the EXACT SAME THING, but people will somehow make Jose look like a selfless player while TJ is some kind of ego maniac.

You are correct on this. And in the past, I may have been guilty of this myself.

If there's one thing I'm starting to notice about the top defensive teams in the league is that they will try and take Bosh right out of the game, make our 3-point shooters put the ball on the floor and try and force our PG's to be shooters/scorers instead of passers. NJ did this in the playoffs. San Antonio, Boston, Detroit and other teams do it in the regular season. And since we only have one player on the roster that can draw double teams and none of our wing players can consistantly create their own shot off the dribble, that pretty much leaves it up to the PG's.

[Duncanfan]

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Your post contradicts itself. When Jose tried taking over the game in SA he became "numero uno" as you put it, because no one else was doing anything worth a damn. Now earlier in the season, when CB4 wasn't upto speed and AB couldn't hit the ocean with a stone, TJ also became "numero uno" (think 1st game against Boston) and brought the team back. It's the EXACT SAME THING, but people will somehow make Jose look like a selfless player while TJ is some kind of ego maniac.

Enough with the name-calling.

Actually, there is ONE MAJOR difference between Jose taking over offensively and TJ taking over offensively. When TJ takes over, EVERYONE is ignored on almost every possession, the ball stops moving completely and TJ always shows that he MUST take the last shot. Jose, on the other hand, whenever takes over offensively, the ball is still moving, he picks and chooses his spots still and still goes to his best player in crunch time which was very indictive in the San Antonio game. Jose brought us back in the game but in the last 3-4 mins, he still went to Bosh in the post or they fed the ball to Rasho in the post and even the last opportunity we had of reducing the deficit to one point, Jose ran a pick and pop with Bosh for a CLEAN look which CB missed. So there's your difference. Its one thing to take over and bring your team back in the game whereas its completely different to take over, bringing your team back in the game and then still ignore your best player/teammates.

Thats what pisses people off about TJ and not the fact that he shot too much or put up too many points. How many last shots or game winners has TJ really nailed? Several times he wanted to be the man only to jack up a wild sot, playing hot potato or missing layups etc. He doesn't know how to pick and choose his spots once the team is back in the game, he continues to go at it and usually makes some mistakes in crunch time that piss people off.

[Trianoball]

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Your post contradicts itself. When Jose tried taking over the game in SA he became "numero uno" as you put it, because no one else was doing anything worth a damn. Now earlier in the season, when CB4 wasn't upto speed and AB couldn't hit the ocean with a stone, TJ also became "numero uno" (think 1st game against Boston) and brought the team back. It's the EXACT SAME THING, but people will somehow make Jose look like a selfless player while TJ is some kind of ego maniac.

Enough with the name-calling.

The difference seems to be that Ford has a different set of criteria for when it's the time to become numero uno. To me, he's always seemed inconsistent...and that seems to be the sentiment Milwaukee fans have as well .

But I don't want to get into an endless argument, so I'll admit that its just a feeling, if nothing else.

[Reignman]

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Actually, there is ONE MAJOR difference between Jose taking over offensively and TJ taking over offensively. When TJ takes over, EVERYONE is ignored on almost every possession, the ball stops moving completely and TJ always shows that he MUST take the last shot. Jose, on the other hand, whenever takes over offensively, the ball is still moving, he picks and chooses his spots still and still goes to his best player in crunch time which was very indictive in the San Antonio game. Jose brought us back in the game but in the last 3-4 mins, he still went to Bosh in the post or they fed the ball to Rasho in the post and even the last opportunity we had of reducing the deficit to one point, Jose ran a pick and pop with Bosh for a CLEAN look which CB missed. So there's your difference. Its one thing to take over and bring your team back in the game whereas its completely different to take over, bringing your team back in the game and then still ignore your best player/teammates.

Thats what pisses people off about TJ and not the fact that he shot too much or put up too many points. How many last shots or game winners has TJ really nailed? Several times he wanted to be the man only to jack up a wild sot, playing hot potato or missing layups etc. He doesn't know how to pick and choose his spots once the team is back in the game, he continues to go at it and usually makes some mistakes in crunch time that piss people off.

I agree that when our shooter's go cold, TJ doesn't pass them the ball out on the perimeter, but he still looks for cutters or the kick if a shooter is wide open. Also, I have NEVER seen TJ ignore CB4. This seems to be one of those myths that have caught on I guess. Does TJ need to mature with his decision making? Ofcourse, but I've already seen some improvement in those aspects this season. What I don't appreciate is people picking TJ's game apart and using every little detail to put his game down. Most players have weaknesses in their game, and TJ is still young enough to improve upon those weaknesses.

One thing that everyone should agree on is that when TJ's game is ON, he is a force to be reckoned with. Hopefully, he'll become more consistent over another offseason.

[Reignman]

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You are correct on this. And in the past, I may have been guilty of this myself.

If there's one thing I'm starting to notice about the top defensive teams in the league is that they will try and take Bosh right out of the game, make our 3-point shooters put the ball on the floor and try and force our PG's to be shooters/scorers instead of passers. NJ did this in the playoffs. San Antonio, Boston, Detroit and other teams do it in the regular season. And since we only have one player on the roster that can draw double teams and none of our wing players can consistantly create their own shot off the dribble, that pretty much leaves it up to the PG's.

You're exactly right, and the exact same thing is going to happen in these playoffs. We need our point guards to be scorers until we can get that ellusive wing scorer. That's why it boggles my mind when people say they don't want our pg's to become scorers and then wonder why we get bounced in the 1st round.

[easyflow]

please stop with these homer threads. bosh is still our leader.

you obviously value swirsk's commentary as gold. try thinking for yourself for a change, or better yet, start watching games closely.

watch what type of passes and looks jose sets up for his teammates on games that aren't his career best. take a look at his defence... how often his man is open on the perimeter, and how often he gets beat off the dribble

I think these replys are more "homer responses" more than the OP thread. The point being made right now is a good one and I feel it's hard to debate. Calderon is playing great, and playing like a true leader on the floor. The Raptors as a team are playing very good basketball most nights - we're not winning games by tiny margins anymore.

I would agree that Bosh is still our franchise player, however, Calderon is making a good case to be the floor leader, which is really what you want in a PG.

And I would urge you to go back and check out tapes of Stockton, Nash, Payton, etc. in their first few years in the league at around the same age and tell me what you find.... I'm not saying that Jose will be as good as those guys, but he's certainly on the right track with his play of late. Lets all hope he can keep that up!