Lowry

[CruThick]

Wouldn't he be a great fit for you guys at PG? Hughes is better at SG and I believe Gibson is a SG as well. I dont believe you would have to give up a lot to get Lowry, so is there a possibility of this? I know Memphis is shopping him.

CT

[B Mac]

You'll find quite a few big fans of Lowry on our board. If he could be had for Shannon Brown's expiring and some cash or a 2nd round pick that's a no brainer.

[CruThick]

How about you 1st? Its a late rd pick anyways and Im sure thats the minimum for Lowry. I read somewhere that the Memphis GM is counting on having 3 firsts going into the summer and Im sure they will get a late rd 1st for him..

[heathmalc]

How about you send us Lowry, Mike Miller and Cardinal for Our 1st round pick,our second round pick, Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall, Shannon Brown, and cash?

A 1st round pick for Lowry? NO!!! He can't shoot worth a damn and hasn't been in the league long enough to convince me he will stick at the point.

If you just want to send us Lowry, then we'll give you Shannon and a second round pick and cash (Cash will be enough to pay off the rest of Shannon's contract)

Otherwise....Keep him.

[RevMan26]

I've thought of something along the lines of Shannon Brown, Cedric Simmons & our 2008 1st Rounder for Kyle Lowry & Hakim Warrick.

[jnester71]

I can't see them dealing Warrick now that he's the starter unless they are getting a replacement starter at his position in return...
granted the plan may be for him to return to backing up the new starter next season.. it would still not be smart for them to open a huge hole at the position

Lowry would be a perfect fit... having a reputation as a very good defender. Mike Brown would love him.


of course Memphis is looking for a first rounder for him.. they just spent a high one to get him..
but it's obvious even they question his value since they went out and drafted Conley the very next year..

Lowry is still gettting good run there.. a little over 25 minutes a game this year to Conleys 27.. Crittendon is only getting 10-12 a game at this point

even though Memphis has plenty of talent with upside at the PG position they have no reason to give Lowry away as he is only under contract for next season at 1.1 million dollars... they have the team option after that

I know Heathmalc says the guy is unproven.. but he was a beast in the Big East and a lot of NBA PGs take a while to develop... Chauncey Billups comes to mind..

I'm sure Lowry could be had along with Cardinals contract...

while Cardinal is clearly over paid I don't think his contract is the worst one out there.. (13 million for 2 years after this season) and I believe he could help the Cavies.. he gives tremendous effort and can hit the deep ball.. he could provide as much as Donyell Marshall has if not by effort and example alone..

Heathmalc likes to include Gilberts cash in all of his deals..
why is it so much worse to take a little on..

especially if its like getting a first round pick LAST YEAR.. without giving up a pick

[RevMan26]

I'm not sure if they are willing to give up Warrick either, though it seemed earlier in the season he was pretty much in the dog house. They are currently asking a 1st Rounder for Lowry, so I thought they could get a 2-for-1 deal in Brown/Simmons for Warrick as well.

[Benedict_Boozer]

I saw the Nets are trying to dump table scraps on Memphis for Mike Miller (Magloire and Nachbar) so if the Lowry trade included him, sign me up.

Ferry needs to get in on the firesale, we need to add some talent to this roster

[heathmalc]

I saw the Nets are trying to dump table scraps on Memphis for Mike Miller (Magloire and Nachbar) so if the Lowry trade included him, sign me up.

Ferry needs to get in on the firesale, we need to add some talent to this roster

Exactly. Memphis showed their hole-card in the Gasol trade. Nobody is gonna give-up a 1st round pick for Lowry when they can just wait for him in free-agency (Memphis CANNOT keep all 3 of their young PGs).

We'll take on Cardinal...But you have to add Mike Miller to the deal. If you add Lowry as-well, then you get a better deal.

As Benedict Boozer said, The Nets are offering trash for Miller (Magloire-broken Nachbar); Mags is added as an expiring contract -4million- and we have a better player -Ira- who is also expiring, and is also almost 4 million. We can give you Simmons, who is a young Big and a first rounder and filler to complete the trade. That is better than anything offered so far.

Whatever the case, Lowry will not bring a first-round pick by himself.

[Bamboozled]

I think a trade with Memphis should be a direct test as to how good Ferry is at GM. This is a team clearly looking to cut costs, and trading Kyle Lowry would save them $1 million next season. I think Ferry can get him in a trade that would be a clear advantage to the Cavs.

If money is the only issue, a Shannon Brown for Lowry swap would be the simplest, as they were drafted close to each other, and make the same amount of money.

Another option is to expand the deal to include any combination of Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal or Jason Collins. While Miller's outside shooting and Collins' solid post defense would have a role on the Cavs, including Cardinal makes the Cavs hodgepodge offer of borderline NBA-quality players seem more palatable.

But with the owner trying to sell the team, and a GM who's head isn't screwed on is making trades, Memphis is seriously f****d in the head for a while, and Ferry needs to take advantage of this.

[jnester71]

-= original quote snipped =-
Exactly. Memphis showed their hole-card in the Gasol trade. Nobody is gonna give-up a 1st round pick for Lowry when they can just wait for him in free-agency (Memphis CANNOT keep all 3 of their young PGs).

We'll take on Cardinal...But you have to add Mike Miller to the deal. If you add Lowry as-well, then you get a better deal.

As Benedict Boozer said, The Nets are offering trash for Miller (Magloire-broken Nachbar); Mags is added as an expiring contract -4million- and we have a better player -Ira- who is also expiring, and is also almost 4 million. We can give you Simmons, who is a young Big and a first rounder and filler to complete the trade. That is better than anything offered so far.

Whatever the case, Lowry will not bring a first-round pick by himself.

Heathmalc.. you never cease to amaze me..

FIRST - How do you wait for Lowry in free agency when Memphis can control him until 2011/20012.. he is under contract for next year and they have a team option for the year after and beyond..

SECOND - WHY CAN'T THEY KEEP ALL THREE POINT GUARDS?
COMBINED they make about 6.5 million next year.. that ain't breaking anyones bank.. the truth is they have to fill out a roster and those guys are the perfect players to do that with.. young, cheap and talented

THIRDLY - It doesn't matter who is better out of Magliore and Newble... the expirings you are comparing.. Memphis isn't making the playoffs this year. They wouldn't be acquiring either of those guys to resign them to build around next year dude.

FOURTH - If Memphis showed their "hole card" by giving up Gasol why haven't they just accepted the Nets trashy offer? The truth is they are in pretty good shape right now. They don't have to move anyone else at all. They are obviously having a youth movement but Mike Miller has a great team first attitude and isn't breaking the bank. Gasol is soft and had said multiple times he wanted out. Probably not the mentor Miller is/would be. They MAY deal Miller, but they are certainly not in a position of weakness and desperation in doing so.

LAST - Why wouldn't Lowry bring a first rounder? He just cost a first rounder last year! He didn't get any worse in the 60 games he's played since then. There are a LOT of teams in need of a PG. Especially a 21 year old with first round talent.

I'd bet there's several GMs that would love to give Lowry a chance to live up to his draft status and I gaurantee Memphis isn't just giving up on the guy after only 60 games and changing coaches. At this point he's done nothing to show he wasn't worthy of their pick.

[heathmalc]

Heathmalc.. you never cease to amaze me..

I'll take that as a compliment. Thank you.

FIRST - How do you wait for Lowry in free agency when Memphis can control him until 2011/20012.. he is under contract for next year and they have a team option for the year after and beyond..

Memphis controls him through 2010/2011 (you added a year)

SECOND - WHY CAN'T THEY KEEP ALL THREE POINT GUARDS?
COMBINED they make about 6.5 million next year.. that ain't breaking anyones bank.. the truth is they have to fill out a roster and those guys are the perfect players to do that with.. young, cheap and talented

The reason they cannot keep all three point guards has nothing to do with Memphis being able to pay for the contracts they are under. Rather, it has to do with 3 point guards who are young and ALL want playing-time. If Memphis keeps all three point guards, then they will end-up having a locker-room problem. Young players want a chance to prove themselves and to PLAY. There are only 48 minutes in a game, so they are going to HAVE to get rid of at-least one of them. In-addition, if they erratically play all 3 PGs, and never settle on a clear #1 and clear #2, then the players around them will have a problem developing any cohesion and continuity.
[/quote]

THIRDLY - It doesn't matter who is better out of Magliore and Newble... the expirings you are comparing.. Memphis isn't making the playoffs this year. They wouldn't be acquiring either of those guys to resign them to build around next year dude.

Really? I hadn't thought of that (sic). The reason Newble is a BETTER trade
is because he makes LESS than Mags (though not much less), thus Memphis would have to PAY HIM LESS. In-addition, Ira Newble would actually be able to HELP develop the young talent Memphis has while he is there, due to his work-ethic and attitude.

FOURTH - If Memphis showed their "hole card" by giving up Gasol why haven't they just accepted the Nets trashy offer? The truth is they are in pretty good shape right now. They don't have to move anyone else at all. They are obviously having a youth movement but Mike Miller has a great team first attitude and isn't breaking the bank. Gasol is soft and had said multiple times he wanted out. Probably not the mentor Miller is/would be. They MAY deal Miller, but they are certainly not in a position of weakness and desperation in doing so.

Weakness? They already showed their card! Gasol for 2 picks? That is the definition of weakness!!! Kobe demanded a trade too...did LA trade him for two picks? As for them not taking the Nets "trashy" offer, I cannot say why...Perhaps they are in negotiations with another team? What I do know, is the fact that New Jersey even made THAT offer, shows exactly what other GMs think of Memphis' "position."

And BTW... Mike Miller was quoted as saying that he "expects" to be traded. He also said he'd welcome the change of scenery. That may not be a "demand," but it does tell us what Mike is thinking: He hopes to get traded to a contender!

LAST - Why wouldn't Lowry bring a first rounder? He just cost a first rounder last year! He didn't get any worse in the 60 games he's played since then. There are a LOT of teams in need of a PG. Especially a 21 year old with first round talent.

It doesn't matter what he cost THEN, it matters what he is worth NOW! Apparently not much, as Memphis spent their #4 pick on Conley... That sure did show how "confident" they were in picking Lowry @ #21 (one pick before Shannon Brown) in 2006!

And don't tell me they took Conley because he was the best available. What did they (Memphis GM) think...That Conley's 11 points and 6 dimes as a rookie surrounded by a ton of talent was so good they couldn't pass it up? If they were confident in Lowry, then they would have spent that pick on Big AL Horford, or Li Juliani.

I'd bet there's several GMs that would love to give Lowry a chance to live up to his draft status and I gaurantee Memphis isn't just giving up on the guy after only 60 games and changing coaches. At this point he's done nothing to show he wasn't worthy of their pick.

I'd bet that you are 100% right! There are a BUNCH of GM's that would love to give him a shot to live-up to his potential...Just not for a first round pick.

As for the second part (in bold)... If he had done nothing to show he wasn't worthy of the pick...then why did they take Conley? Seems to me that if they believed in him, that Conley would be playing for a different team right now.



I like Lowry. I think he has potential. I don't believe that the Cavs will give a #1 for him. He is a good defender, but he gets beat by quicker guards, he is short, so cannot shoot over his opponent, and he only shoots 40% when he does get a shot off. If he was 6'4-6'6 with his same abilities, then the Cavs would give-up a #1. As it is, Lowry is 5'11 (barely) without shoes. This draft is DEEP in point guards, and the Cavs can get what they want with that pick as opposed for settling for another team's reject.

And answer me this: If he was so damn talented, then wouldn't the Grizz want to keep him? Since they are selling the franchise, wouldn't it be in their best interest to keep a player who is talented and cheap (due to his draft position) as opposed to trading him for a pick that they'll probably have to pay more for, and don't know who they will be getting?

Fact is this: Memphis has showed their hole-card, and the writing is on the wall. EVERYONE with the exception of die-hard Memphis fans and apparently you, can see this.

Lowry will probably stick in the NBA...and if Memphis had traded him earlier, they WOULD have got a 1st (and maybe a 2nd as well), but now they need to either keep him or continue the fire sale.

[Gordon Bombay]

im willing to take on cardinal if it nets us lowry

cavs send pavs, newbs, snow (even if we trade him, we would still have substantial expirings in the offseason to make another move), simmons and 1st

mem send miller, lowry and cardinal

[kiwibrindle]

For that steaming pile I would agree

[mg]

Count me in as a Lowry fan. He was the PG I was hoping would drop in the '06 draft but Memphis grabbed him right before our pick. He showed alot of potential before getting injured in his rookie season and then Conley fell in their laps. I don't consider him a Memphis 'reject'. Just a victim of circumstance especially now that Crittendon and Navarro are also on their roster.

Admitedly Lowry isn't the outside shooter the caliber of Gibson but he's quick and an excellent penetrator/creator for his teammates. He's just the type of change of pace push the ball PG we need. He's young and will only get better. I would give up our #1 pick unless Ferry has his sites on someone like Augustin in the upcoming draft.

Now if the Cavs can expand the deal and acquire Miller by taking on Cardinal's contract I'm all for it. At a mimimum they need to make a small move without breaking up the strength of the team which is their rebounding.

I see Lowry, Jack, and Delonte West's name thrown around and those guys would all improve the team. Ferry could acquire those type players without trading our key players or killing the future cap flexibility.

[jnester71]

Heathmalc, you HAVE to get off the crack.
It's making you think you are some NBA big shot. First you're standing next to Ben Gordon, then you're in New Orleans swapping trade stories with Ferry and Rod Thorn. Didn't you just say that the NBA shut down the trade talks for the All Star game? Just another of your contradicitions..
If you lived it you wouldn't have to come here and pretend it. You wouldn't even have the time right now.


In my first point I used the word "control" in regards to Lowry as opposed to saying he is under contract thru because Memphis does CONTROL Lowry for the 11/12 season. He was a first round pick. Being the CBA wizard you are you should know they can match any offer and CONTROL him for that season.
If its easier for you then just go to HoopsHype and check out the salary page where it shows the above as a "qualifying offer".

NONE of that matters anyway BECAUSE my only point was that YOUR POST was STUPID for saying that a team could just wait for him in free agency like he was expiring at the end of the season or something. He's not going to be a free agent for a long time. Interesting how you conveniently left your original post out of it. Can you not admit it was stupid?

I love your second point about how if Memphis don't play Lowry, Crit and Conley they will have a "locker room problem." You must be the team psychiatrist to have figured that one out. Or maybe you know these guys personally?
Yes all young players want to play, but there is no locker room problem with them in Memphis and therefore they DO NOT HAVE to trade anybody. Even though I think using psychic abilities to forecast locker room troubles is a tool Bill Belechick has explored I'd bet Memphis is probably thinking no signs of problem = no reason to expect one.
Even if they thought there would be a problem they would probably think it was smarter to take more time to decide which player they actually want to keep and then HAVE to make a deal when the problem occurs. After all they did just get Crit. Can't be too sure about him can they?

You're also extremely twisted about the whole expiring contract thing. You say that Newble is better than Magliore because he makes less. When coveting an expiring dude its about MORE. Teams want as many expiring dollars as possible.
Newble is NOT a better player than Magliore and NEVER was anyway. Magloire has played for and therefore been coveted by many teams and being a big just inheritly has more value than Newble anyway.

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL ANY TEAM is looking to Ira Newble to help develop any young talent, especially not for two months.
That is even CRAZIER than when you said Jason Kidd's value depends on how the USA Olympic team does this offseason.
Work ethic and attitude? You're talking about the guy who refused to go in the game for the last 30 seconds. I'm sure they'd want a guy who knows he is only going to be around for two months "mentoring" their young talent.

And BTW.. Mike Miller was quoted in the same article as professionally saying he plays for Memphis and gets paid by Memphis and will give his 110% to Memphis until he is no longer in Memphis.
Wanting to be traded to a contender? WHO DOESN'T?!?!

Memphis moved Gasol because he was becoming disruptive demanding trades every month and not providing the same effort he once did.

Unless Mike Miller starts demanding to be traded they don't HAVE to trade the guy and won't unless they get more cap space and more high draft picks.
The fact that New Jersey made a crappy offer doesn't mean anything other than they made a crappy offer.
Crappy offers are rejected everyday.
What shows their position is that they REJECTED that offer.

You are partly correct that they took Conley because they felt he was too good to pass up.
They didn't pick Horford because they had Gasol, Darko, Swift and Warrick who all play his position(s).
They were also set at the 3 with Miller/Gay, and the other plays the 2.
They only had Lowry at PG back then and only played 10 games as a rook due to injury.
Crit and Conley were obviously not there. Navarro wasn't acquired til August 17th.

They picked Conley because he filled their biggest need back then don't you think? And yes they think he has tremendous upside. Some people do think that about Conley.

To understand why they picked who back then you have to look at who was on their roster back then. Not who's there now...
Their positions of strength have changed through multiple trades and Navarro panning out.

Would they be giving Lowry 25+ minutes a game if they had given up on him? In fact Lowry has played 39 minutes or more in three of the last 6 games. Thats hardly giving up on a guy.

You'll have to point it out for me where it says anyone on Memphis said they WANT to get rid of Lowry.
I missed that. They seem to have gotten rid of who they WANTED to get rid of to me (Gasol).

In fact their GM has been quoted as saying he didn't EXPECT any more moves to be made.
IE. If you want someone you're going to have to make it sweet. The Gasol deal had everything to do with a guy not wanting to be there. I can't think of many people who would command 2 first rounders and a boatload of expiring cash so that really isn't such a bad deal.. it would be horrible IF Memphis expected to win now BUT they don't and will be better with the 2 players from the picks and whoever they sign with the expiring money in the offseason.. Gasol wasn't a leader and will be a lot better as the number two for the Lakers... the reaction is mostly from people who are jealous of the Lakers now..

but again.. Miller is demanding a trade and is saying the right things.. so Memphis is now in the better position

just say no to drugs

when the Cavs fire Ferry I hope they hire a psychic GM like heathmalc

[heathmalc]

Heathmalc, you HAVE to get off the crack.
It's making you think you are some NBA big shot. First you're standing next to Ben Gordon, then you're in New Orleans swapping trade stories with Ferry and Rod Thorn. Didn't you just say that the NBA shut down the trade talks for the All Star game? Just another of your contradicitions..
If you lived it you wouldn't have to come here and pretend it. You wouldn't even have the time right now.

First - you are a real loser.

Second- I never contradicted myself. Pay attention when you read.

Third - You are the only "pretender" I see on this forum.

Fourth - I said "The league office shut down" - I never said that the teams shut down, and as for living "it".... Are you an idiot? I'm not nobody but a fan - never claimed otherwise. Quit reading into fans' posts and trying to start problems.

Fifth - Why don't you take your own advice, and get off the drugs.

sixth - you're and idiot.

[B Mac]

Its time for you two to kiss and make up.

[TheOUTLAW]

That's enough of the namecalling etc between the two of you. If you can't post in a civil manner don't post here. That is the only warning I am going to give you without some type of penalty. If you must argue do in in PM but not on this board.

[jnester71]

-= original quote snipped =-
First - you are a real loser.

Wow! There you go again claiming to understand people you don't know. Reminds me of when you said three players you don't know will have a locker room problem. You should be on Montell with Sylvia Browne.

Third - You are the only "pretender" I see on this forum..

What am I pretending? To not like you? pretending that you posted something that you didn't?
I'm not pretending.

Fourth - I said "The league office shut down" - I never said that the teams shut down, and as for living "it".... Are you an idiot? I'm not nobody but a fan - never claimed otherwise. Quit reading into fans' posts and trying to start problems.

No, you said that the NBA "forbids teams from talking about any trades"
Your post is still up there.. go read it..

Your claiming to be just a fan now?
I guess your 12 Bulls games.. standing right next to Ben Gordon last week.. swapping trade rumors down in New Orleans.. that could mean you're just a fan.. but you're implying you have some special knowledge and you obviously don't
thanks for being kind enough to take your computer "down there" to New Orleans so you could keep us all informed of the rumors "down there"..

sixth - you're and idiot.

I am and idiot?

I'm not the one posting idiotic things..

tell us more about how teams want the Cavs worthless players because they can "mentor their youngsters" or because they are "expiring in a year or two".. or how a smaller expiring contract is better than a large expiring contract because they has to pay less over the last two months of the season.. or how Jason Kidds value will drop a lot if the USA doesn't win gold.. or how someone elses trade idea can't work because you just know it will cause "locker room problems".. or how the Cavs payroll will climb to $90 or $100 million.. or how Gilbert will ship $3 cash in every trade.. or how in every trade a player gets bought out..

thats not even all of your UNREALISTIC BS..