Hedo All-Star? (Allen replaces Bulter)

[mattyBoi]

People saying that hedo didnt make based on race are absolutely assanine.

That is so ridiculous it turns humorous.

White players that are good enough to make it into the All Star Game make it in.

Its simple as that.

For the past couple years there has been questionable additions such as Wally and Okur.

Who, what do you know, happen to be white.

So if anything, based on your logic, you have a better chance to sneak in if you ARE white.

[mattyBoi]

As far as Ray vs. Hedo to make it in.

Ray is a FAR better play than Hedo is talent and experience wise.

Although.....The all star game should be based on a players year to year performance, and this year, Hedo has had a better season, and has contributed more to his team.

Hedo should have made it over Ray.

[magik9113]

it's because Allen is a bigger name, and the Celtics are the best in the league. Let's bring race into everything though, that's fine...

[karizma87]

here's what I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPpo0NyBeLA

Allen:
PPG 18.5
RPG 4.1
APG 3.0
SPG 1.0
BPG 0.2
FG% 0.426
FT% 0.914
3P% 0.375
MPG 38.3

Hedo:
PPG 19.5
RPG 6.1
APG 4.6
SPG 1.0
BPG 0.3
FG% 0.447
FT% 0.827
3P% 0.385
MPG 37.6

this is why hedo is better THIS year...and should be in ASG. arguing this just makes you look dumb, stern just put a guy who had a 2point 2 rebound game into the ASG, because he has a NAME...and about wally and okur, i dunno about wally but okur is the best-shooting center at the time and he is still a vital part of one of NBA's best teams and will have more great seasons as he gets rid of his injuries...

[TreyAllen34]

Here's what I think :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov_4fI7IY3g

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlSsWnZ ... re=related

You act like Hedo has been playing head and shoulders above Ray this year and that's just not the case. Hedo holds slightly higher per's than Ray Allen, it's simple really Ray is an integral part of the best team in the league and he has sacrificed his own stats to help the team win, why shouldn't he be rewarded? He's been an all star his whole career basically so I don't understand this uproar. If anything Hedo should have made it over Rasheed.

[karizma87]

hedo > rasheed is another story...

allen plays MORE minutes than hedo, and hedo also has 2 other great players on his team. nice try though...if he has been so "sacrificing" for his team, then perhaps he'll get a ring for it, but ASG is not about that...

[taruky1]

-= original quote snipped =-



more versatile? more clutch? are you freaking kidding me? Hedo has one good year and you think he's better than Ray Allen? Seriously? I don't know what the hell your smoking but if you think Hedo is even close to Rays level you need to stop. Rays scoring has gone down because of who he's playing with and besides that Hedo is freaking 6'10" and the dude is only avg 6 rebs get outta here with this bs homer crap, Ray is on the best team in the league and has been an all-star caliber player his whole career. Hedo has one good season and you act like he's better than Ray? give me a break.

This year, yes. Over his career, no, of course not. But this is not a comparison for entrance into the hall of fame, it's for entrance into the 2008 all-star game. If this was about career stats, Allen would be in ahead of Caron Butler as well. As for Allen's performance this season, Hedo has him beaten in every statistical category, including field goal percentage. You think that is supposed to drop playing with KG???.

You made a comment about Hedo being 6'10"and only grabbing 6 rebounds. Well, lets turn this around then. A 6'10" guy averaging more assists than Allen, and a slightly better assist:turnover ratio.

[AdamTheGreek]

Here's what I think :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov_4fI7IY3g

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlSsWnZ ... re=related

You act like Hedo has been playing head and shoulders above Ray this year and that's just not the case. Hedo holds slightly higher per's than Ray Allen, it's simple really Ray is an integral part of the best team in the league and he has sacrificed his own stats to help the team win, why shouldn't he be rewarded? He's been an all star his whole career basically so I don't understand this uproar. If anything Hedo should have made it over Rasheed.

*Yawn*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPpo0NyBeLA

I don't see Ray Allen celebrating in style.

[KZ]

People saying that hedo didnt make based on race are absolutely assanine.

That is so ridiculous it turns humorous.

White players that are good enough to make it into the All Star Game make it in.

Its simple as that.

For the past couple years there has been questionable additions such as Wally and Okur.

Who, what do you know, happen to be white.

So if anything, based on your logic, you have a better chance to sneak in if you ARE white.

Well, Wally clearly may have been a questionable addition, although his numbers were quite impressive that season (18.7/4.8/3.1 along with .508 FG, .456 3PT, 0.831 FT). As for Okur, he had two consecutive seasons with almost identical stats: the first almost a whole season without Boozer and the second singlehandedly saving his team from losses with incredible clutch play. The Jazz were a winning team not being represented in the ASG due to Boozer's injury, so Okur ws the logical choice at that time. So, I would at least expect Hedo to put up the same numbers next sesaon as well for him to play in the ASG.

Look at the Nuggets - Iverson is in, Carmelo is in, but the reigning Defensive Player of the Year Marcus Camby is out, even though he is putting up monstrous numbers again this season. If someone deserves to be there, it his him. But then the Nuggets simply do not deserve to be represented by three players simply due to their record. One might argue that Zach Randolph is a consistent 20/10 guy over his entire career, but then he never has been a winner.

The ASG is entertainment for the fans, which probably means that individual talent like Vince Carter, Shaq or Andre Iguodala should have been included. I personally find Duncan's bank shots boring (although he is the only fundamentally sound player in the league), but love to watch Shaq jacking up 3 pointers or Carter doing 360 dunks.

Just my .02

[N4U|Redux]

this is why hedo is better THIS year...and should be in ASG. arguing this just makes you look dumb, stern just put a guy who had a 2point 2 rebound game into the ASG, because he has a NAME...and about wally and okur, i dunno about wally but okur is the best-shooting center at the time and he is still a vital part of one of NBA's best teams and will have more great seasons as he gets rid of his injuries...

Hedo isn't better this year, he's putting up better stats this year.

If we base the game solely on stats, guys like Manu Ginobili, Josh Smith and Jose Calderon deserve spots over the guys that have made it on the roster.

Get off the pipe and stop being a ridiculous homer.

We see the "stats" argument all the time from idiot homers (i.e. that Kevin Smith was a top 3 back this year in college football because of his raw stats).

Would you seriously not trade Hedo for Allen this year? Pretend that time is frozen to this year and Allen's contract and age therefore serve as no problems. Allen would easily put us over the top to be an arguable favorite if you ask me. Allen is leaps and bounds better than Hedo in the past, and this year too. End of story, this thread is (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

[karizma87]

-= original quote snipped =-



This year, yes. Over his career, no, of course not. But this is not a comparison for entrance into the hall of fame, it's for entrance into the 2008 all-star game. If this was about career stats, Allen would be in ahead of Caron Butler as well. As for Allen's performance this season, Hedo has him beaten in every statistical category, including field goal percentage. You think that is supposed to drop playing with KG???.

You made a comment about Hedo being 6'10"and only grabbing 6 rebounds. Well, lets turn this around then. A 6'10" guy averaging more assists than Allen, and a slightly better assist:turnover ratio.

owned...

[karizma87]

[quote="N4U|Redux"][/quote]

dude hedo owns him in every category, base the argument on whatever you want...hedo will come out on top wheteher it's versitility, clutchness, importance to the team or solid stats but please give a legit reason at least if you wanna call me names and be an allen homer...

[karizma87]

and just to add, I'm not saying hedo has a better career than allen by any means, but no way does allen deserve to be in THIS YEARS ASG over hedo...

[KingRobb02]

As opposed to how many non-white players?

Why is Paul "much much better" exactly? I'd take Nash over Paul any day of the week...if it were a one season type of thing at least. Paul might be 'better' than Nash if you consider Nash's age, but that's about it.

What does this prove? Being the best of the Knicks players isn't exactly a complement to anyone.

So will Chris Paul. Hinrich got that deal because he is a great passer. Oh, and PG is probably the only position where people give honkey's half decent respect in this game (specifics: Stockton, Nash, Hinrich, Cousy).

And, just how many black players make more than Andrei? How many in history have been significantly worse than Andrei (when he got that contract) and made that money? Leaving the Knicks off the list will improve things, but not terribly.

Not trying to sell hip hop culture in Indiana. GO FIGURE.

I'd be interested in a demographics study of the board. My guess? There's a higher rate of whites:blacks on this board then there are fans of the game (i.e. for argument sake, we'll say it's near 50/50 for people that watch on TV (leaving out other ethnicities), I'd crap myself if 50% of the posters here were black.

I agree with your end-result, but not the build up to the conclusion (I guess this is a case of being "vacuously" true). Hedo didn't get in because Hedo has only done this for one season and doesn't have, or deserve, a reputation yet. Allen is a proven commodity, and if the salaries matched, Hedo was Allen's age and if you told me you wouldn't trade Hedo for Allen, I'd punch you in the face.

I wasn't trying to say that white people have just as much a chance of winning the MVP as black people, I was just saying that in the current state of the NBA (the past 3 years) it seems as though white players have been getting a fair amount of respect. When 40% of the All NBA team is white and 90% of the league is black, I wouldn't say there is an anti-white bias at all.

Chris Paul is better than NAsh based on talent, athletic ability, numbers and the way he dominates the game. Just watch them play and you will see a noticeable difference. Look back to the double OT game from a week ago when CP dominated Nash in a head to head matchup. You saying that you would still take Nash this year only proves that you may be blind. Paul is having a legendary season and his team is near the top of the west even though he only has 1 offensive weapon.

I wasn't saying that David Leee was the best. FAr from it. I was saying that he is the most coveted even though he has obvious deficiencies. Honestly I would say he is the 4th best prospect at best behind Randolph, Crawford, and Nate. If we got any of them, you would probably throw up in your mouth. But I bet you would be happy to see David Lee suit up for us.

You are saying that Kirk is a great passer so he deserves $11 Million this year. First of all, he isn't even the full time point guard so how great a passer can he be. If he was so good at setting up an offense, CHris Duhon would have no place on that team. Secondly, Chris Paul deserves a max contract since he is one of the top 2 players in the game today. Why are you trying to compare Kirk and Chris? Kirk is streaky combo guard that plays OK defense and happened to catch Paxson when he was suffereing from some form of brain damage (overpaying for Wallace, letting Chandler go, et. al.). His contract is even more ridiculous than Jameer's. Wait, no it isn't.

When comparing AK47 to CHris Bosh I was just trying to point out that it is possible for a white player to get what he deserves in this league. Who makes more than him is irrelevant. I just wanted to show that skin color doesn't decide who gets the respect around the league.

The rest of your arguments are incoherent babbling and rhetoric. I just didn't think you should have went as far as to say that if Turk had braids and tattoos he would be an all star. He is not in the all star game because he has played 1 good half season and there are other people who deserve it more. Who cares if you want to punch me in the face for respecting Ray Allen? The guy is playing on the best team in the league and keeping them afloat while their MVP is out with a hernia. Meanwhile fans of the (distant) 4th best team in the conference feel like they have a racial problem on their hand when David Stern decides not to give them recognition for being a .600 team. Like I said, If Turk keeps this up for another 12 months he will definitely be in next year.

[mattyBoi]

Nash is better than Paul right now...Paul will be better though.

Hornets have Peja, Chandler, West...Not just one offensive force.

David Lee is loved, mostly for his hustle...The kid leaves it all on the floor...Hes also good for a double double when given the minutes and thats with no plays being run for him.

I would take David Lee over any Knicks player based soley on potential and heart.

Kirk Hinrich got his deal because until this season, he was playing out of his mind. He lead the bulls to some 50 win seasons and into the playoffs. He was also logging big minutes on team USA. The kid was earning the pay.

Statement about AK and getting respect in the league i totally agree with you on.

White players not getting respect based on race is total garbage.

Lastly im not trying to defend anyone, but i dont think n4u was the one that made the race comments, correct me if im wrong

[N4U|Redux]

I just didn't think you should have went as far as to say that if Turk had braids and tattoos he would be an all star. He is not in the all star game because he has played 1 good half season and there are other people who deserve it more. Who cares if you want to punch me in the face for respecting Ray Allen? The guy is playing on the best team in the league and keeping them afloat while their MVP is out with a hernia.

I don't think you bothered to read who this post was from.

I'm supporting Allen throughout the thread.

I'm supporting you about the dumbass black comment that the other guy said.

I'm supporting you that Hedo shouldn't be an all-star yet.

I was however ribbing you about all the opportunity white guys have in this league because you listed a few exceptions to the rule.

Go back and read this thread please, lol, I'm not of a differing opinion than you are.

[N4U|Redux]

dude hedo owns him in every category, base the argument on whatever you want...hedo will come out on top wheteher it's versitility, clutchness, importance to the team or solid stats but please give a legit reason at least if you wanna call me names and be an allen homer...

I'm not an Allen homer...where the hell did you get that idea?

First off, I'm a Magic fan and I hate the Celtics. And, not simply because of this year either, I've hated them for most of my life that I can remember

Second, I am just not a Hedo homer. I love the guy and think he's great for our team. But, I'm able to be objective about this, something you're evidently not able to do.

Thirdly, I have mentioned why I feel Hedo is not as deserving, both logically and why it probably actually happened. To recap:

1. Allen is a proven all-star player, and for most of his career has been one of the best at his position.

2. Hedo is unproven and plays in a small market, you cannot expect him to get recognition based on half of a season. Unlike you or I, the voters don't obsess over our team. This is the factor that is probalby a huge factor as to why he's not on the team -- not that it's a fair factor.

3. Hedo does not "own" him in places, it's actually a moot point.

4. Stats aren't everything. As stated, Josh SMith, Manu Ginobili, and Jose Calderon should all have made their respective rosters if we're going off of statistics only -- BUT WE'RE NOT.

5. Hedo could arguably have better stats, but that doesn't make him the better player automatically. As stated, other homers bring up the "stats" argument even though stats are easily skewed. I'm pretty damn sure that if Allen were on a team different than the Celtics he'd have better raw stats. That doesn't mean his game has gotten worse from last year though. Furthermore, I do not believe Hedo would produce similarly in Boston where the possessions are much more competitive (Garnett > Dwight, Pierce > Lewis).

6. Anyone who wouldn't trade Hedo for Allen on the basis that Hedo's raw stats this season are better is insane in the membrane (lol). All things considered equal (i.e. age, salary, etc) would you or would you not trade Hedo for Allen if the opportunity arose? I know I would without hesitation.

Do I need to quantify my reasoning any clearer? Do me a favor and just answer the question proposed in #7 and explain your reasoning as to why you wouldn't take Allen for Hedo in a trade.

[N4U|Redux]

Oh and great post mattyBoi

How anyone could say Paul > Nash is beyond me.

KingRobb had some great observations throughout this thread, but that wasn't one, lol (Oh, and I'm an admitted Nash hater)

[Typhoon20]

Second, I am just not a Hedo homer. I love the guy and think he's great for our team. But, I'm able to be objective about this, something you're evidently not able to do.

I've pretty much ignorant Karizma's posts since half a year.
So I will never EVER agree with him or support his posts in any way, I haven't read it and I didn't bother now.

That said, are you implying that people who think Hedo should be an all-star are Hedo homers ? People who wouldn't trade Hedo for Allen are considered homers in your eyes ?

I wouldn't call you a Hedo hater for saying he shouldn't make the all-star team, and I'd expect from you to avoid calling people homers just cause they think Hedo should have been an all-star.

There are MANY non-Magic fans that consider Hedo an all-star,
Bosh, Barkley and a bunch of other players aside, even Lebron has said it. And I don't consider them a Hedo homer, though I don't know what kind of lovefest they are having behind the scenes.

Also, it's called the 2008 All-Star game, not Pre-2008 All-star game.

[MagicMadness]

For me, I feel like Allen deserves an alternate spot.

However, I feel like Turkoglu is more deserving of the most recent alternate spot..