Chicago / Cleveland trade

[heathmalc]

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Gordon only makes sense for the Cavs if Hughes is running the point. Otherwise he becomes a huge liability on defense as an undersized shooting guard. It only works if there's some height on the floor as the pg.

EXACTLY!!!

You are 100% right OUTLAW, the trade makes sense "only" if we keep Hughes.

For those who mis-read the proposal that was made: I made it, not the Chicago MOD (fan).

It is the only scenario where I can see us taking Wallace and giving-up a 1st rounder.

Also...Ben Gordon does play defense. He isn't a stopper, but he does contest shots. In addition, he is a very good shooter. He is 6'3 210LBS, and is strong. He can take it to the hole and FINISH! He will be a MUCH better option than Sasha !!!!!!!!!!!

Our 1st round pick won't be very high, so it is easy to trade - besides, we can probably buy a higher pick.

The contracts we send out: Ira, Eric, Drew = approx 16 million. We STILL will have 19 million+ in expiring contracts to trade next year. It is a very good deal for us. Larry and Ben Wallace will expire at the same time...that will be 30 million MORE in expiring deals after next season.

Ben Wallace is a MUCH better defender than Drew Gooden!!! A rotation of
Big-Z, Varejao, and Ben Wallace is VERY,VERY strong!!!!

Take a look at our line-up:

PG: Larry Hughes/Boobie Gibson/Damon Jones
SG: Ben Gordon/Gibson/Sasha/Devin/Larry/Damon
SF: LeBron/Sasha/Devin/Larry
PF: Anderson Varejao/Ben Wallace/LeBron/Dwayne Jones/Simmons
C : Big Z/ Ben Wallace/ Anderson Varejao/Dwayne Jones/Simmons

This is an excellent group to go into the playoffs with. If we see something that doesn't look good, then we have 19+ million in expiring contracts to use over the summer to make things right for 09.

This is a good deal for both teams. I would prefer the Mike Miller deal, but this one is pretty good too.

[jnester71]

that would be a great lineup..

but it should be for around $90 million



I'd imagine Ferry would have to get awfully close to Gilbert to get that done

[TheOUTLAW]

no way do the Cavs take on those extra dollars. They just are not going to take any more bad contracts and no way you spin it is Wallace anything other than a bad contract.

[heathmalc]

Oh, you are wrong. I can spin the hell out of this.

Yes, Ben Wallace is a bad contract in Chicago. But the KEY to this deal is that he WONT be a bad contract in Cleveland. Why? You ask.

Is LeBron a bad contract? He makes almost the same as Wallace, for the same length? No? LeBron isn't a bad contract because he produces for the team. We could pay LeBron 20 million and nobody would mind.

Wallace was put in Chicago to give them an inside presence. But Ben has never been an offensive player. He is a defensive player. He is 6'9 and can't shoot a lick! But he has been in the top-15 in rebounds, steals and blocks EVERY year since he started in Orlando. He has won defensive player of the year 4 times. He has come-in second 3 other times. He has been on the all defensive 1st team 5 times and the second team 2 times. He is one of only three players in NBA history to lead the league in Blocks and rebounds in the same season. He is one of 5 players to be in the top ten in steals,rebounds and blocks (four times).

The problem that Ben has is that Chicago tries to feed him the ball in the post...which he CANNOT do!!!!! Oh, yeah...Did I mention that he has been in the top-3 in offensive boards for 7 years running?

Wallace is doing EXACTLY what he did in Detroit. His numbers have not fallen. He has done exactly what he ALWAYS does! It is Chicago's fault for trying to use him differently.

Worried about Ben slowing the Cavs down? Don't! He lettered in Track,Baseball,Football and Basketball. He runs a 4.6 40-yard dash.

He is a good team player. He has 2 kids (Ben and Bryce) and does a lot of community service.

It is not Ben's fault that Chicago uses him wrong, it is Pax's and the coaches.

Cleveland will get a steal if they can get Wallace and Gordan for Drew,Eric and Ira. An ABSOLUTE steal!!!

[Bamboozled]

I think trading Gooden's value to the Bulls is higher than his value anywhere else. And if the Cavs want to make it through Boston, Detroit, Orlando or SA, having Ben Wallace would make that proposition far more likely than having Gooden get schooled repeatedly.

And effectively swapping Pavlovic for Gordon plays more to Larry's style of play as well.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

[BOBBA LUI]

Chicago doesn't need Gooden, I threw him into the original draft proposal because he was just a filler to make the contracts work. I didn't know Cleveland valued him so much. Chicago needs their young bigs to develop and Gooden doesn't help there. If Gordon is being moved, it would be for players that fill the hole left in our offense.

With such low regard for Gordon, I would have pull his name out of negotiations, since he's drastically undervalued right now.

[TheOUTLAW]

I have 2 points

Wallace is a bad contract in Chicago and he'd be a bad contract in Cleveland.

Gordon is not undervalued, he's valued just about right for a player that can score but is undersized at his position. Can't run the point, isn't much of a ball handler, is looking for big money in the short term and is a negative defensively. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I never saw what Chicago fans saw in him except his ability to score and to take bad shots.

[girlygirl]

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Gordon only makes sense for the Cavs if Hughes is running the point. Otherwise he becomes a huge liability on defense as an undersized shooting guard. It only works if there's some height on the floor as the pg.

EXACTLY!!!

You are 100% right OUTLAW, the trade makes sense "only" if we keep Hughes.

For those who mis-read the proposal that was made: I made it, not the Chicago MOD (fan).

It is the only scenario where I can see us taking Wallace and giving-up a 1st rounder.

Also...Ben Gordon does play defense. He isn't a stopper, but he does contest shots. In addition, he is a very good shooter. He is 6'3 210LBS, and is strong. He can take it to the hole and FINISH! He will be a MUCH better option than Sasha !!!!!!!!!!!

Our 1st round pick won't be very high, so it is easy to trade - besides, we can probably buy a higher pick.

The contracts we send out: Ira, Eric, Drew = approx 16 million. We STILL will have 19 million+ in expiring contracts to trade next year. It is a very good deal for us. Larry and Ben Wallace will expire at the same time...that will be 30 million MORE in expiring deals after next season.

Ben Wallace is a MUCH better defender than Drew Gooden!!! A rotation of
Big-Z, Varejao, and Ben Wallace is VERY,VERY strong!!!!

Take a look at our line-up:

PG: Larry Hughes/Boobie Gibson/Damon Jones
SG: Ben Gordon/Gibson/Sasha/Devin/Larry/Damon
SF: LeBron/Sasha/Devin/Larry
PF: Anderson Varejao/Ben Wallace/LeBron/Dwayne Jones/Simmons
C : Big Z/ Ben Wallace/ Anderson Varejao/Dwayne Jones/Simmons

This is an excellent group to go into the playoffs with. If we see something that doesn't look good, then we have 19+ million in expiring contracts to use over the summer to make things right for 09.

This is a good deal for both teams. I would prefer the Mike Miller deal, but this one is pretty good too.

Huh? Have you actually ever seen the Bulls play?
Ben Gordon is NOT 6'3" 210. He is really about 6'1" (he was measured at just over 6'1" in socks at the pre-draft camp) and he weights maybe 195 pounds. Take a look when he's standing next to Hinrich sometime -- Kirk is about 2" taller, although both are listed as 6'3". He also is not a particularly good finisher at the rim. He tends to throw up floaters/"giant killers" rather than go strong to the basket, although he has improved in this area since his rookie year.

[heathmalc]

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Huh? Have you actually ever seen the Bulls play?
Ben Gordon is NOT 6'3" 210. He is really about 6'1" (he was measured at just over 6'1" in socks at the pre-draft camp) and he weights maybe 195 pounds. Take a look when he's standing next to Hinrich sometime -- Kirk is about 2" taller, although both are listed as 6'3". He also is not a particularly good finisher at the rim. He tends to throw up floaters/"giant killers" rather than go strong to the basket, although he has improved in this area since his rookie year.

I have been to 12 Bulls games this year.

PRE-Draft camp???????

I was just standing next to Gordon about 2 weeks ago and I weigh 196 and I'm 6'1. Gordon is DEFINITELY taller than me, and he is about 210. He may have weighed 195 before the draft a couple years back, but he is a hell of a lot more than that now. During the last game I saw (A Bulls loss...imagine that) Ben go through Artest, then bounce off Miller before finishing for a "and one."

I don't think that Gordon is MJ or LeBron or anything remotely close, but he will definitely add a new dimension to our team...And he can most-definitely finish!!!

I do concede that Hinrich IS taller than Gordan though - albeit not by very much.

[jnester71]

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I have been to 12 Bulls games this year.

PRE-Draft camp???????

I was just standing next to Gordon about 2 weeks ago and I weigh 196 and I'm 6'1. Gordon is DEFINITELY taller than me, and he is about 210. He may have weighed 195 before the draft a couple years back, but he is a hell of a lot more than that now. During the last game I saw (A Bulls loss...imagine that) Ben go through Artest, then bounce off Miller before finishing for a "and one."

I don't think that Gordon is MJ or LeBron or anything remotely close, but he will definitely add a new dimension to our team...And he can most-definitely finish!!!

I do concede that Hinrich IS taller than Gordan though - albeit not by very much.

I can't believe GirlyGirl called out Heathmalc!

Didn't she know he and Gordon were tight?

[jnester71]

Don't be sad GirlyGirl...

I was just standing next to Fletch two weeks ago and he is 6'3...
6'9 with the afro

[girlygirl]

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I have been to 12 Bulls games this year.

PRE-Draft camp???????

I was just standing next to Gordon about 2 weeks ago and I weigh 196 and I'm 6'1. Gordon is DEFINITELY taller than me, and he is about 210. He may have weighed 195 before the draft a couple years back, but he is a hell of a lot more than that now. During the last game I saw (A Bulls loss...imagine that) Ben go through Artest, then bounce off Miller before finishing for a "and one."

I don't think that Gordon is MJ or LeBron or anything remotely close, but he will definitely add a new dimension to our team...And he can most-definitely finish!!!

I do concede that Hinrich IS taller than Gordan though - albeit not by very much.

If you went on the Bulls board you'd see how much they complain about any of the Bulls' guards and their inability to finish at the rim. Gordon is better at it than Hinrich and Duhon, but that doesn't make him particularly good at it.

And I mentioned the pre-draft camp because that is wher he was measured. He has put on weight since then (he's listed at 200 pounds, by the way, which is probably what he started this season at -- but most guys drop a few pounds as the season goes along). And he's definitely cut. But he hasn't grown any since his pre-draft camp days, now has he?

Draftexpress.com has a database giving the players' measurements from the various pre-draft camps. Go into the database for the 2004 camp and you'll see the following: Ben Gordon (without shoes) - 6'1" (with shoes) 6'2 1/4" (I'm guessing he was wearing shoes when he was standing next to you the other week)

Then go into 2003 database and you'll see the following: Kirk Hinrich (w/o shoes) - 6'2 3/4" (with shoes) 6'3 3/4"

So Hinrich is nearly 2" taller than Gordon

[Bamboozled]

Since the last I checked, NBA players tend to wear shoes when playing. And since a lot of players' heights are exaggerated, I don't worry as much about Gordon's height as I worry about his contract situation.

For kicks some time, check out the next time Lebron stands next to Ben Wallace. Lebron is a legit 6'8" and is definitely taller than Wallace, whom I've seen listed at 6'9" and 6'10".

[jnester71]

For kicks some time, check out the next time Lebron stands next to Ben Wallace. Lebron is a legit 6'8" and is definitely taller than Wallace, whom I've seen listed at 6'9" and 6'10".

Wallace is definately taller when sporting the afro..

LeBron may be taller when Wallace sports cornrows..

[Tommy Udo 6]

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Wallace is definately taller when sporting the afro..

LeBron may be taller when Wallace sports cornrows..

In an interview earlier this season, Ben W admits he is actually 6'7"

The NBA still lists Eddy Curry at 285 pounds - which was his weight in his last season in Chicago. He's no where near that now