Why arent we going after Artest?

[manun]

Damn the west is going crazy. Now Carmelo is really pushing for an Artest trade and i havent heard anything from our GM about a trade.
This is making me anxious, before the west was pretty much open but with the trades thats been made i dont feel that assured more.

These are the teams we gotta beat if we want to win it all:

Lakers- got gasol
Spurs- u can never count them out
Suns - The shaq trade might sink them or raise them
GSW- Just got Webber (he might suck now, but hes a big body that can give yao troubles)

Utah- they kicked our ass last year so comments

Rumour trades:
Ben Gordon to NOH (got damn, like Paul wasnt enough.)
Dallas- if they get kidd they lack depth but then they might get stackhouse back which only makes them better. They lose penetration but they gain leadership which they have lacked in the play offs
Artest to denver, which makes them really really dangerous.


So are we the ones being left behind? I love scola, brooks and landry. But we still lack something in my opinion. Battier is nice and all but artest is better than battier in every category except being crazy.

[compucomp]

1. Do you really know that Morey is not looking to make a trade? For an example of how Morey does his stuff, who the hell knew we were going after Aaron Brooks and Carl Landry? We all though we'd pick up McRoberts or Glen Davis.

2. The only team that has improved itself is the Lakers. The Shaq trade makes Phoenix no longer a matchup nightmare, Webber might be the only player in the NBA slower than Yao, and the Kidd trade kills Dallas's depth since they will NOT get Stackhouse back, and it is always Dallas's depth which kills us.

3. The vast majority of rumors do not come to pass.... how many times have we been rumored to trade McGrady already this year? I think at least two.

[rockybalboa11]

tmac should really get dumped for him

seriously

the dude has nothing left and is a ball stopper in the new offense

[A.J.]

i dont believe we have interest in artest, rumor has it that denver has interest

[Baller 24]

1. Do you really know that Morey is not looking to make a trade? For an example of how Morey does his stuff, who the hell knew we were going after Aaron Brooks and Carl Landry? We all though we'd pick up McRoberts or Glen Davis.

2. The only team that has improved itself is the Lakers. The Shaq trade makes Phoenix no longer a matchup nightmare, Webber might be the only player in the NBA slower than Yao, and the Kidd trade kills Dallas's depth since they will NOT get Stackhouse back, and it is always Dallas's depth which kills us.

3. The vast majority of rumors do not come to pass.... how many times have we been rumored to trade McGrady already this year? I think at least two.

I think Shaq trade makes the Suns worse for us to handle. Yao will have big nights now against them, but inside they have two of the most dominant players in the game, and Yao can handle one, but I don't care how good Hayes defense is, or how much Scola can hustle, neither can stop Amare inside. People are just over looking this trade.

[moofs]

1. Do you really know that Morey is not looking to make a trade? For an example of how Morey does his stuff, who the hell knew we were going after Aaron Brooks and Carl Landry? We all though we'd pick up McRoberts or Glen Davis.

Don't forget all the people who were mad we didn't pick Nick Fazekas!!

[Alex_De_Large]

We have Battier and Wells to play in Artest role, ? i love the guy, but, do we really need him?
We need a PG who can improve Alston.

[moofs]

We have Battier and Wells to play in Artest role, ? i love the guy, but, do we really need him?
We need a PG who can improve Alston.

I really want my old "point guards who are an improvement on rafer alston" thread stickied so things like this don't keep getting posted without end.

There. Is. No. Point. Guard. Who. Is. An. Improvement. On. Alston. That. We. Stand. A. Realistic. Or. Even. Good. Chance. Of. Acquiring.

Think outside the box and look at something else we can improve. Point guard is very unlikely to happen. The improvements are almost all all-stars.

We only have ONE shooter that should ever be on the floor who shoots over .333 right now (Battier - Head and Novak are still not good options).

Backup center upgrade is minimal benefit since he's only going to play 11 minutes.

PF is going to be hard to upgrade for the same reasons. We have 3 outstanding role player PFs, and to upgrade them we'd have to either package one with something else someone wanted (creating a hole at another position), or trade a position player (read: Bonzi or Alston), which... creates a hole at another position (and with minimal benefit, if any).

So I'll give you a hint, best areas to look at are Small Forward, Shooting Guard, cap flexibility, and/or cost cutting (we're at 73.4274 with LT threshold at 67.8653, which means salary for the roster is actually 78.9895). Alexander won't increase salary if he doesn't think it puts us over the top (and maybe not even then, he's no Cuban). We aren't going to trade Battier, as he's a team captain, the heart of the team, the anchor of the defense, and our best existing 3p shooter. As such, you have a short list of SG shooters, which I compiled the other day:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... =#15480611

I still say what we need is a good mid-sized shooter.

If you look at this
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/3P...ason=22007

Cuttino Mobley might be a good option for us. I'm pretty sure no one has discussed him. He may still be ok at defense (no clue). Knowing Sterling, we'd have to give up less salary for him. They should need a PG. I don't suppose we could trade Mike James (:snicker:), Novak, and Brooks for him?

Past that, the best guys we could get are Kareem Rush and Troy Murphy, but Murphy is WAY overpriced (much, MUCH better to get Szcerbiak) and Rush isn't much of an upgrade over Head, if any.

Everyone else that's a good shooter is a significant contributor on a contender or direct competitor. No way any of them swing us a deal for them without us giving up more than we'd want to.

One nice thing about Rush - he can't be a worse ball handler or defender than Head, and he costs half as much - which begs the question of why Indiana would want to bother trading him to us without something else being involved.

Why we DON'T want to get Artest:
- He's worn out his welcome in 3 cities, each in under 2.5 years.
- He's an unrestricted FA at the end of this year.
- We wouldn't want to give up much to get him, so why would the Kings be overly eager to trade with us?
- He's a bad incident waiting to happen, the Rockets aren't known for taking chances on known head cases (publicized-as headcases? yes, occasionally. Actual ones? no. Developed-into or stealth headcases? We'll be shipping you out soon, thanks)
- If we don't win this year whatever we gave up is going to hurt us in the long run unless you wanted to salary dump them.
- Locker room cancer on a team of low key guys (bad mix, even if they do need something like this to a degree, imo)
- Artest is not a good perimeter player and we have plenty of mid-range-and-in offensive players already (Yao, Scola, Bonzi, Landry)
- Our defense hasn't been a problem, so how is he really going to help us there?

I'm not reading through this thread. Has Anthony Parker been discussed? I have major doubts he's available, and don't know how his defense is, but other than that he looks like he might be a good fit.

AP has good defense.. I bet he is not aquirable

(my expected sentiment toward him)

P.S.
------
McGrady
G: 37
2: 246-524 - 46.9%
3: 54-170 - 31.7%
Ast: 5.4
Reb: 5.0
Stl/Blk: 1.4/1
TO: 2.54
Salary: $19,014,187

Alston
G: 49
2: 139-308 - 45.1%
3: 85-255 - 33.3%
Ast: 5.5
Reb: 3.3
Stl/Blk: 1.3/.2
TO: 2.12
Salary: $4,550,000

[Alex_De_Large]

Sam Cassell.

[moofs]

Sam Cassell.

Doubtful.

Either the Clippers have to buy him out to help out a potential conference rival or we have to trade for him and/or others. We don't match up well salary-wise with that (6.15 mil) and he's also an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. The Clippers are already ludicrously short at point guard this year, why would they want to aggravate that situation? Why do we want to take on another injury-prone player who isn't a good outside shooter? He'd also either be displacing Brooks (who I would like to see continue having chances to develop at this point) or Alston (which doesn't make any sense). If he's displacing Alston, we just need to trade him (not a good idea, again, Cassell is a free agent and might well retire - which leaves us in big trouble next year).

We HAVE passing, we HAVE a ball handler, we HAVE a floor general. The only thing Sam would bring at this point is maybe some swagger (if you believe the talk about things like that). I wouldn't want to give up anything (it would likely involve Scola, who is better inside the arc, or Alston, who is a better 3p shooter) we would need to give to get Cassell. That leaves the buyout option, which I don't see happening, and which wouldn't help us any because we don't have any cap space or good exceptions to sign him with after that (unless he's willing to make a bad business decision to go back to his potentially sentimental rookie club).

So basically toss on a "no thanks" even if the doubtful stops being a problem. Sam Cassell, at this point, doesn't "improve Alston", he shifts our deficiencies and makes our glaring lack of outside shooting more apparent.

I need to make a [Official "Let moofs tell you why your trade is a really bad idea" Thread]

Come on, keep namin' names. I'll pop em all down!

p.s. On second thought, do some research and thinking before just spouting off random names. Thanks.

p.p.s. My friend who used to think we should "trade McGrady straight-up for T.J. Ford", STILL thinks we need to do that, and is more emphatic about it this year with the way McGrady is playing. I want to break something.

[Iggyemu]

I think Mike Miller is where our focus is probably now.

[A.J.]

I think Mike Miller is where our focus is probably now.

i would do anything to get him in a rockets uni

[Alex_De_Large]

alston is not better than cassell in anything, cassell for alston+francis it's a good deal for both teams, next year if cassell retires, we know brooks can play there.

[RoxFan08]

-= original quote snipped =-



i would do anything to get him in a rockets uni

There are two problems:

We are a division rival, so Memphis is less likely to trade with us (although the Battier trade is a noticeable exception)

We don't have the right type of contracts. We have a bunch of small expirings, who together can just barely equal Millers in the checker, but Memphis isn't looking for a 5 for 1. Francis isn't expiring (he has a player option), and James has two more years after this one that no one wants to touch.

Basically, for salary cap purposes we'd have to give Battier or Scola in a trade with Memphis, unless we can find a team to take James for expirings. Do you see that as likely?

Maybe, just maybe, we can send someone a 1st and James for expirings, and then send another pick and expirings to Memphis for Miller. But its pretty unrealistic.

[Baller 24]

This would be the perfect time to get Artest, if there is any way we can get him, now that Bibby is gone, the Kings are certainly going to in the Memphis direction.

[dontel]

-= original quote snipped =-



i would do anything to get him in a rockets uni

morey says you run butt naked in front of toyota center for 30 mins, and he'll promise you mike miller! how bout that?

[moofs]

There are two problems:

We are a division rival, so Memphis is less likely to trade with us (although the Battier trade is a noticeable exception)

We don't have the right type of contracts. We have a bunch of small expirings, who together can just barely equal Millers in the checker, but Memphis isn't looking for a 5 for 1. Francis isn't expiring (he has a player option), and James has two more years after this one that no one wants to touch.

Basically, for salary cap purposes we'd have to give Battier or Scola in a trade with Memphis, unless we can find a team to take James for expirings. Do you see that as likely?

Maybe, just maybe, we can send someone a 1st and James for expirings, and then send another pick and expirings to Memphis for Miller. But its pretty unrealistic.

Your contracts problem is pretty spot on afaik. I don't think the division/conference thing is an issue considering that they're rebuilding and just gave Pau to the Lakers.

[moofs]

This would be the perfect time to get Artest, if there is any way we can get him, now that Bibby is gone, the Kings are certainly going to in the Memphis direction.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... 9#15511039

Any particular reason you think we'd want to ignore any of that?

[moofs]

alston is not better than cassell in anything, cassell for alston+francis it's a good deal for both teams, next year if cassell retires, we know brooks can play there.

What do you mean he isn't better than Cassell at anything? He's a better 3 point shooter - both career and this season. He's also less injury prone. and 7 years younger Giving them Alston solves the problem of leaving THEM without a hole at point, but you still didn't answer these points:

If he's displacing Alston, we just need to trade him (not a good idea, again, Cassell is a free agent and might well retire - which leaves us in big trouble next year).

So far, Brooks is looking to be more of a scoring point who can handle the ball than an actual point guard. It doesn't mean I'm not interested in keeping him or seeing him develop, just that I still have some doubts on his ability to run a team.

I wouldn't want to give up anything (it would likely involve Scola, who is better inside the arc, or Alston, who is a better 3p shooter) we would need to give to get Cassell.

[tosweet68]

[quote="moofs"][/quote]


According to ESPN's trade checker, Artest has 2 years on his contract, not just this one.

This year Artest is shotting a better percentage from 3 than everyone on our team except Battier and Head....not counting Novak since he rarely plays any significant minutes.