The we don't owe Shaq anything thread

[Lane1974]

I dont doubt he made money, I doubt he made hundreds of millions

[jaypo]

Well, you could have had LO and Caron and their payrolls and not won a championship. I have no proof that the Heat made money off of the championship season. I'm no stat geek, and I don't have time to back up every single word I post with facts gathered from research. But I doubt the Heat was wronged by Shaq. BTW, I still haven't heard anything negative that he said about the Heat, and I haven't heard one jab yet.

[MartyConlonJr]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/32/biz ... 29036.html

If this helps, the link has the Heat Historical snapshot from 98-07, based on things like Value, Revenue, Operating Income and Player expenses. You'll see that in 04 (Wade's rookie year, before Shaq), the Heat's operating income was $19 mill, in the past 3 years with Shaq the operating income was $12, $21 and $18 (average $17 million). I'm no financial guru, but I can't imagine that the Wade/Odom/Butler lineup with Wades meteoric rise to superstardom, that the Heat wouldn't have been selling out at home with that fast breaking young team, as well as selling jerseys and blah blah blah. Shaq gave us legitimacy, and led to a title, but I doubt the revenue would have been much difference considering national broadcasts and overall jersey sales are evenly distributed around the league. The difference in revenue would have been ticket sales for additional playoff round tickets, but probably would have been offset by the additional salaries.

[Riled Up]

Interesting link, if the Heat are on a Calendar year for their fiscal year then Shaq's arrival is reflected in the '04 year. Their Operating Income didn't break $8M for the prior 3 years and was $19M, $12M, $21M and $18M with Shaq. The numbers support a significant increase but don't let you know the breakout.

One thing that you chose to omit is that your link indicates that the value of the franchise has nearly doubled since SHaq arrived. An increase in value of $182M using '04 as the start date or an increase of $139M if you use '05.

The team's annual revenue also went up by $40M during the Shaq years.......yes, that's $40M per year.............

[MartyConlonJr]

I believe that the 04 season was the Wade/Butler/Odom year, seeing as it's talking about 07 being the loss in the playoffs to Chicago, meaning 06 was the chip, 05 was the conference finals loss, the 04 was before Shaq.

[Lane1974]

whatever, I was just disappointed in some of his comments, especially they "I haven't had an easy bucket in 6 years" jab.

They say that 2 of the best days of a man's life is the day he buys a boat and the day he sells his boat. That's like what this trade feels like to me. I hope he & the Suns win it all this year.

I also can't wait till the next Heat game to see Wade & Marion play together again.

[HIF]

I think that neatly sums it up Lane.

[MiamiHeatFan2004]

Shaq helped get us a ring, and we should always remember him for that one season.

But, he was a disappointment overall to me. He never worked hard, was injured far too often and didn't have enough big games for the money we paid him.

We don't owe him anything and he is not a legend in Miami, he is one of the best Cs to play here along with Zo and Seikaly, but he only had 2 good seasons, so I rank him as our 3rd best Center of all-time when you compare him with the other 2 guys that played at a high level for much longer.

[HIF]

I think the hanging of a jersey should only be for a player who personifies Miami Heat. it should be for a player who gave his heart and soul to the Heat over many seasons.

That is why I agree with Zo but not with Shaq even though Shaq is one of the greatest players ever to play the game. Shaq is assured of HOF, not Zo, but Zo should's shirt should be hung from the rafters not shaq.

hopefully one day wade's shirt will be up there too, but if he left us next year or in 2010 I wouldn't want his jersey up there even though I think he was the most important part of our chip.

I'd go so far as to say that at this moment Haslem would deserve more than Wade to have his shirt hung - that's not to say he should. Haslem needs to give us another 8 to 10 years of heart and soul BB before his number is retired.

just my opinion.

[kobeaki]

Shaq helped get us a ring, and we should always remember him for that one season.

But, he was a disappointment overall to me. He never worked hard, was injured far too often and didn't have enough big games for the money we paid him.

We don't owe him anything and he is not a legend in Miami, he is one of the best Cs to play here along with Zo and Seikaly, but he only had 2 good seasons, so I rank him as our 3rd best Center of all-time when you compare him with the other 2 guys that played at a high level for much longer.

you see thats exactly what we in l.a. saw, not the ball washers mind you but any fan with objectivity....

can you imagine playing alongside that human-barge,and possessing a tremendous work ethic?(kobe) or a very talented off-guard(anfernee),or a guy who sacrifices his body night in night out(dwayne)?

remember guys this snackwell has NEVER accomplished anything without a top-flight guard,doing all the blue collar work, making shots, etc...

that said i wonder if the issues with his wife is what mostly soured his pallet with miami?


a bitter divorce will make one hate anywhere...

[MartyConlonJr]

The other thing I find funny is the comment that Arison made more of Shaq than Shaq made off Arison. Maybe true, maybe not, but if it is true, then it just fits the business model for every industry in the world. How many businesses would stay afloat if they gave their employees more money than the employee earned them?

[Bayernfan]

kobeaki wrote:

you see thats exactly what we in l.a. saw, not the ball washers mind you but any fan with objectivity....

can you imagine playing alongside that human-barge,and possessing a tremendous work ethic?(kobe) or a very talented off-guard(anfernee),or a guy who sacrifices his body night in night out(dwayne)?

remember guys this snackwell has NEVER accomplished anything without a top-flight guard,doing all the blue collar work, making shots, etc...

that said i wonder if the issues with his wife is what mostly soured his pallet with miami?


a bitter divorce will make one hate anywhere...

It will be a funny thing watching the faces of bryant fanatics when O'Neal jersey will be retired in Staples. Also it had to be unbearable to play alongside Shaq in LA and winning titles, poor kobe... Also this: "Shaq has NEVER accomplished anything without a top-flight guard" thing, is one of the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) argument Shaq-haters had thrown against him. It was answered so many times that I will not bother, but using the haters logic I will ask this: So to be acknowlege as the great player, one has to win without any help? So this means Kobe Bryant is a failure because he needed HOF center to win championsips and people should never again call Magic Johnson a best pg because he was a disapoinment ( look at his supporting cast !!! ) he should just take Luke Turdchucker and we would see how great he really was

[Riled Up]

The other thing I find funny is the comment that Arison made more of Shaq than Shaq made off Arison. Maybe true, maybe not, but if it is true, then it just fits the business model for every industry in the world. How many businesses would stay afloat if they gave their employees more money than the employee earned them?

That's exactly right, and good employers do feel that they OWE quite a lot to the employees who make them successful....................I thought you were the one who started this thread!?!?!?!

[MartyConlonJr]

-= original quote snipped =-
That's exactly right, and good employers do feel that they OWE quite a lot to the employees who make them successful....................I thought you were the one who started this thread!?!?!?!

Huh? The hospital paying the world's highest paid doctor or the <insert business group> paying the world's highest paid <insert employee for business> is paying through the nose to have the best employee.

Shaq has been earning more than anyone else in the NBA except possibly Garnett and for the most money, you expect the player to produce stats, be your best player get you championships. He achieved some of it, but got paid for it. Basically he did his job the first two years, and then kind of cruised the next season and a half.

If you bought the worlds most expensive toaster and it turned bread into toast 70% of the time, would you hang its jersey on your wall?

[Riled Up]

-= original quote snipped =-



Huh? The hospital paying the world's highest paid doctor or the <insert business group> paying the world's highest paid <insert employee for business> is paying through the nose to have the best employee.

Shaq has been earning more than anyone else in the NBA except possibly Garnett and for the most money, you expect the player to produce stats, be your best player get you championships. He achieved some of it, but got paid for it. Basically he did his job the first two years, and then kind of cruised the next season and a half.

If you bought the worlds most expensive toaster and it turned bread into toast 70% of the time, would you hang its jersey on your wall?

What? So if you pay well you don't have to appreciate what is being done for you? If your well paid employee takes you to new heights and makes you more money than you have ever made you owe that person not one iota of gratitude? Interesting point of view............

Enough with the analogies....Shaq gave us three and half good years including an MVP type season, helped lead us to two trips to the Conference Finals and a Championship and the greatest financial success the franchise has ever seen.

Thank you Shaq, good luck in Phoenix, we don't all have to agree......

[kobeaki]

kobeaki wrote:

you see thats exactly what we in l.a. saw, not the ball washers mind you but any fan with objectivity....

can you imagine playing alongside that human-barge,and possessing a tremendous work ethic?(kobe) or a very talented off-guard(anfernee),or a guy who sacrifices his body night in night out(dwayne)?

remember guys this snackwell has NEVER accomplished anything without a top-flight guard,doing all the blue collar work, making shots, etc...

that said i wonder if the issues with his wife is what mostly soured his pallet with miami?


a bitter divorce will make one hate anywhere...

It will be a funny thing watching the faces of bryant fanatics when O'Neal jersey will be retired in Staples. Also it had to be unbearable to play alongside Shaq in LA and winning titles, poor kobe... Also this: "Shaq has NEVER accomplished anything without a top-flight guard" thing, is one of the most (Please Use More Appropriate Word) argument Shaq-haters had thrown against him. It was answered so many times that I will not bother, but using the haters logic I will ask this: So to be acknowlege as the great player, one has to win without any help? So this means Kobe Bryant is a failure because he needed HOF center to win championsips and people should never again call Magic Johnson a best pg because he was a disapoinment ( look at his supporting cast !!! ) he should just take Luke Turdchucker and we would see how great he really was

wow. not too. bright are you?

im fine with shaqs number hanging in the rafters of staples.

i was mereley giving counter-points to the kobe haters...

sorry barnryfan(whatever) ill use bigger words next time...

at least all the retired jerseys hanging in staples, actually played for the lakers, talk about bizarre...

[BFO]

And this has run its course.