OT: Jeez, Bibby to the Hawks

[Wizards2Lottery]

Why people still hate on Nick Young is a mystery.

First he was declared a bust before he even played a game. No one expected him to get minutes.

Now that hes showing flashes (albeit inconsistently), people are making ridiculous assumptions about his future.

Trading him for a bum like Tim Thomas is absolutely ridiculous. Just because half the league has made short sighted moves doesn't mean we have to. I'd much rather have pieces to contend for the next several years rather than mortgaging our All Star caliber talent for a bum who won't make us all that better.

[fishercob]

Nate, you may be right. I'm just going by what I see. When I first saw Blatche play, I felt he had a long way to go, but had an innate feel for the game that told me he was going to be very good. I don't see that in Young. I see a better version of Gerald Green. An unbelievably gifted athlete with some nice skills, but not much of an actual basketball player if you know what I mean.

I'd trade him for Kyle Lowry. I think Memphis would have to look at that. Maybe we could wrangle a swap of second rounders too.

[BruceO]

I wouldn't trade nick young. He has the natural skill to be an elite SG in this league. I had this opinion before he played a game and everyone was declaring him a bust. I said he moved like kobe in my mind but he obviously wasnt kobe and people on the wizards website thought i was crazy until gil came out and said what I meant in his blog. I will go by gil's estimate, four years and he'll be one of the top guards. I think it will take less.

[Zerocious]

why would arenas even consider atlanta, ever? especially if he could have washington? more than money he wants wins, play-off wins - atlanta wasn't really an option

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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Great for the Wiz but I think the Clippers would want a little more because of the cap hit. Send out 2008 first instead of the MEM pick and I think you have something. The problem, though is that this puts us over the luxury tax threshold so it will never happen.

But we could still do Songaila+Young for Tim Thomas. That would be my first choice of trade deadline moves for Grunfeld to make.

Lyrical, I think that's too much to give for Thomas. Nick can score and was a first rounder for a reason. I wouldn't give that up just for Darius.

The deal with AD's contract included to Songaila and Young at least gets back more than twice the cap space with Cassell expiring, plus Cassell's a guy who still could give 10-15 quality minutes, even with starters Gil, AJ, CB, and Brendan. Sam has an attitude and a swagger, plus he's not afraid to go flagrant on a quicker young guy.

I would inlcude Young in a deal that yeilded a lot of cap room, but not one that just got Thomas, even though he'd be ideal off the bench for Caron or Antawn.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nate, I don't think Young helps the Wizards unless he's making shots. He could get better for sure, but my sense from watching him play is that he's always going to tantalize with his physical gifts but will never put it together.

My interest in trading him has to do with a couple things. One, I think his perceived value in the marketplace is higher than his actual value; I think scouts see his talent and think their coaches and systems can be the ones that enable him to put it together. The other thing is that I think Young will (or at least should) be out of the rotation once the roster is back and healthy.

Mason's more likely to re-sign if he sees a clear role for himself here also. I think if the organization makes a commitment to Young, Mason's not going to stick around to be the fifth guard.

This team is going to be ready to contend in the next couple of seasons; I don't think Young will be ready to contribute meaningfully, and thus EG should explore moving him for someone who will.

fisher, I agree 100% on Nick Young. Tantalizing talent who can score, but doesn't strike me as a great player down the road. Just a guy who will score 18-20 any time the shot's there. Like JR Smith.

I believe a guy like Aaron Brooks would be MUCH better for the Wizards right now than Nick Young. I believe Roger Mason knows his role, plays within a team concept, and would be a better guy to count on to make a tough shot without shooting the team our of a game than Nick.

I'd be okay with seeing Young go now for cap relief because assuming Gil comes back, I think Roger can handle backup SG just fine.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

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Ditto. Nick Young is CHEAP, an already good scorer, and the only guy on the team who can create his own shot sans Arenas (and to a lesser extent) Butler. With Mason gone after this year (I believe he'll get a sizeable raise), we NEED N1 because we have no young guards on the roster.

Nick's NOT getting traded.

Our talk is speculation, but reality says in 4 days, after the deadline has come and gone, Young and everybody else will still be a Wizard.

That said, one thing to consider is that with Gilbert, Nick will really have an easier time getting his own shot. Maybe his eFG percentage will go up considerably and maybe he'll also force fewer shots.

Nick's biggest problem is the bad misses and his freezing out teammates. With Gil on the coiurt, he's less likely to be a shotjacker.

[GilArenas88]

Well at the very least this helps out there terrible three point shooting. More good new for Wizard fans.

[doclinkin]

Key thing to remember with Nick Young is how badly he wants to please people and live up to expectations. His prior coaches all say he does whatever you ask of him without complaint.

Of course up 'til now he's been asked mostly to score-- which in college he did with remarkable proficiency. Can he learn to defend? He'll try. He's got the physical gifts, and hey most folks would have said up 'til recently that a guy like Jamison would never learn or improve. With his length and athletics he'll be able to defend alright almost by accident so long as he gives a little effort. We see it even now from time to time.

I've got the feeling he'll be alright. He's just now learning that he has the game to be able to score at a big league level. And that's what the team has needed out of him: points from the bench. If he remained a productive bench scorer fro his entire career he'd still be useful. BUt I think as they both develop he and DMac will form an interesting tandem: one a rebounding, defending facilitator and glue guy, passing the ball and keeping possessions active, the other a scoring finisher.

Our entire bench needs seasoning, but what can you expect?-- they're all rookies and puppies. I think as they grow up together in the system they'll develop some solid chemistry. You can't expect them to be great yet, rookies on most contending teams play relatively little. Only on suck teams to you get long minutes despite the poor on-court habits or results that rooks usually bring.

Right now the problem with all three of 'em (and Andray too) is their enthusiasm. It's why Nick takes wild shots, Pech jacks threes, Dray fouls, and why Dom used to bite on every pumpfake. We'll see better efficiency when they each start to figure out what they're doing, why they're here and catch up with how things work in the N B and A.

Nick will be fine. Eventually. It's not like he's terrible now, frankly. He's better now than 2 months ago, even. You can see him learning. So what if he's not, you know, Brandon Roy. He's a mid-first rounder, you don't get a fully polished player with no flaws and pure talent after the lotto. Once he develops, his skill set is a nice fit for a clear team need: reliable guard scoring when Gil is out the game. I don't see how any available trade replaces even that, much less provides the same upside.

[LyricalRico]

Nate, you may be right. I'm just going by what I see. When I first saw Blatche play, I felt he had a long way to go, but had an innate feel for the game that told me he was going to be very good. I don't see that in Young. I see a better version of Gerald Green. An unbelievably gifted athlete with some nice skills, but not much of an actual basketball player if you know what I mean.

Co-sign.

[Wizards2Lottery]

Key thing to remember with Nick Young is how badly he wants to please people and live up to expectations. His prior coaches all say he does whatever you ask of him without complaint.

Of course up 'til now he's been asked mostly to score-- which in college he did with remarkable proficiency. Can he learn to defend? He'll try. He's got the physical gifts, and hey most folks would have said up 'til recently that a guy like Jamison would never learn or improve. With his length and athletics he'll be able to defend alright almost by accident so long as he gives a little effort. We see it even now from time to time.

I've got the feeling he'll be alright. He's just now learning that he has the game to be able to score at a big league level. And that's what the team has needed out of him: points from the bench. If he remained a productive bench scorer fro his entire career he'd still be useful. BUt I think as they both develop he and DMac will form an interesting tandem: one a rebounding, defending facilitator and glue guy, passing the ball and keeping possessions active, the other a scoring finisher.

Our entire bench needs seasoning, but what can you expect?-- they're all rookies and puppies. I think as they grow up together in the system they'll develop some solid chemistry. You can't expect them to be great yet, rookies on most contending teams play relatively little. Only on suck teams to you get long minutes despite the poor on-court habits or results that rooks usually bring.

Right now the problem with all three of 'em (and Andray too) is their enthusiasm. It's why Nick takes wild shots, Pech jacks threes, Dray fouls, and why Dom used to bite on every pumpfake. We'll see better efficiency when they each start to figure out what they're doing, why they're here and catch up with how things work in the N B and A.

Nick will be fine. Eventually. It's not like he's terrible now, frankly. He's better now than 2 months ago, even. You can see him learning. So what if he's not, you know, Brandon Roy. He's a mid-first rounder, you don't get a fully polished player with no flaws and pure talent after the lotto. Once he develops, his skill set is a nice fit for a clear team need: reliable guard scoring when Gil is out the game. I don't see how any available trade replaces even that, much less provides the same upside.

Co-sign. I don't know what people expect out of a mid first round player. I think Young has played above expectations. Don't know what else people expected.

[hands11]

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If Arenas decides not to opt out and rather waits until Summer 09 to test the free agent waters, there are lots of teams that might make a play for him. It is a mystery to me why Arenas is insisting on opting out this summer when there are few, if any, potential suitors.

Atlanta is no longer a factor in free agency this summer.

You nailed it.

GA doesn't have to opt out.

There was no downside to him saying he would. This only signaled to teams, hey, if your interested, make a play for me. He was basically giving them a heads up to do something if they wanted. He is going to play this out because there is no downside to him not playing it out. It keeps his name out there. Free press.

With the injury, it didn't work out the way he wanted. He can always fall back on playing out his last year.

It very well may end up that GA just plays out his last year. Hopefully this happens so we only have AJ to really worry about in the off-season.

[bulletproof_32]

^^ There

[Dat2U]

Nate, you may be right. I'm just going by what I see. When I first saw Blatche play, I felt he had a long way to go, but had an innate feel for the game that told me he was going to be very good. I don't see that in Young. I see a better version of Gerald Green. An unbelievably gifted athlete with some nice skills, but not much of an actual basketball player if you know what I mean.

I'd trade him for Kyle Lowry. I think Memphis would have to look at that. Maybe we could wrangle a swap of second rounders too.

Totally agree with this. I just see a guy that wants to score and its really the only thing he's learned to do. And he's not even all that efficient at it yet.

He's been able to contribute more than I expected thus far simply b/c as doc mentioned EJ has asked him to do really only one thing. However I think on most teams, Young would be glued to the bench until he displayed better shot selection, a more diverse game and better body language.

As long as shot-jacking is encouraged though, Young will continue have his moments here in DC.

I'd love Lowry though...especially if the Wizards were willing to move AD as well.

[LyricalRico]

I don't know what people expect out of a mid first round player. I think Young has played above expectations. Don't know what else people expected.

Exactly, I didn't expect much and I'm not impressed with flashes in a pan that last for little more than a few consecutive shots. And because I don't expect much, I'm not pressed to keep the guy at all costs like some are. (It was different with Blatche because he's 6'11 and had no college experience. Athletic guards who can't do anything but make the occasional fade-away, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen.)

Folks can't have it both ways. You can't say he's the next Kobe or TMac every time he gets hot and then when he stinks play the "he's only a mid-first round pick" card. Either you have high expectations for him or you don't. And if you're saying that you didn't expect much, don't cry when you see his name in trade ideas.

I just see a guy that wants to score and its really the only thing he's learned to do. And he's not even all that efficient at it yet.

He's been able to contribute more than I expected thus far simply b/c as doc mentioned EJ has asked him to do really only one thing. However I think on most teams, Young would be glued to the bench until he displayed better shot selection, a more diverse game and better body language.

Another great point. And a scary one because we all know how EJ imagines guys being good in certain roles and then even when they aren't suited to those roles he keeps throwing them in there out of habit.

So we can pretty much count on EJ refusing to develop any other part of Nick's game and making him his gunner off the bench for the rest of his time here. That will ensure that, by the end of Young's rookie contract, he will have made made zero progress towards becoming an actual NBA player and we'll be screaming for Grunfeld to let him walk (just like we did with Dixon and Hayes who were EJ's previous gunners).

So we can debate this kid's potential all day long but in the end it really doesn't matter how much potential Nick Young has. He's not going to realize it under EJ so we might as well trade him for somebody who can actually help us.

[yungal07]

Who said Nick Young is the next Kobe? I don't think even his biggest supporters have ever said anything coming close to that. He's a mid round pick who's playing like a rookie/on par with his draft position.

And EJ isn't making Young into a gunner - that's a silly statement to say the least. He's playing Young in the role he is most comfortable with, which is good coaching. Trying to make Young into a defensive stopper or a point guard is just not happening. Get over it.

[LyricalRico]

And EJ isn't making Young into a gunner - that's a silly statement to say the least. He's playing Young in the role he is most comfortable with, which is good coaching. Trying to make Young into a defensive stopper or a point guard is just not happening. Get over it.

Hey, I didn't say he could be a PG or a defender. In fact, I don't think he'll be much of anything. I've been trying to trade him since Summer League so there's nothing for me to "get over".

As for EJ playing Young "in the role he's most comfortable with", that's certainly not an argument in favor of Young's potential. If Young's comfort level is defined by throwing up bricks outside the flow of the offense, then he needs to get uncomfortable real quick.

All I'm saying is that the guy's one reason for being in the league is that he can supposedly score. But he's not doing it consistently. We ran Dixon out of town because he only got hot once a a week. And now we're supposed to embrace Young for doing the same thing just because he looks more athletic when he misses?

I don't believe that Young will ever be a starter here and Mason is clearly a more reliable option. So why not move the kid to get us something we can actually use?

[ZonkertheBrainless]

Did you just say Mason is a better player than Nick Young?

Can I have some of what you've been smoking? Mason can't hold N1's jock.

[yungal07]

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Hey, I didn't say he could be a PG or a defender. In fact, I don't think he'll be much of anything. I've been trying to trade him since Summer League so there's nothing for me to "get over".

As for EJ playing Young "in the role he's most comfortable with", that's certainly not an argument in favor of Young's potential. If Young's comfort level is defined by throwing up bricks outside the flow of the offense, then he needs to get uncomfortable real quick.

All I'm saying is that the guy's one reason for being in the league is that he can supposedly score. But he's not doing it consistently. We ran Dixon out of town because he only got hot once a a week. And now we're supposed to embrace Young for doing the same thing just because he looks more athletic when he misses?

I don't believe that Young will ever be a starter here and Mason is clearly a more reliable option. So why not move the kid to get us something we can actually use?

And yet you proposed trading Young and a pick for Rasho and Dixon? LMAO you are nuts dude.

Anyway, if you were expecting a consistent effort from a 16th pick halfway through his rookie season, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment- hence the "get over it" part.

[fishercob]

Did you just say Mason is a better player than Nick Young?

Can I have some of what you've been smoking? Mason can't hold N1's jock.

More talented? No way. Better basketball player? Absolutely.