McKie/Van Horn Loophole?

[dingclancy]

I understand that the rules of the game are for the salaries to match in a trade. However signing and trading a retired player to match up salaries is not in the spirit of the rules and I read that it is an action that is frowned upon in the league.

When GM's witness Kupchack coming out in the clutch and see what the Lakers have landed with a damn McKie.... then Cuban possibly following up with KVH to get a Kidd, then these two trades have set a precedent for a slew of trade proposals that will allow a team with no assets in the active roster sign a retired player for one year - then trade them to rebuilding teams as expiring contracts.

Looks like a loophole to me.

[RockTHECasbah]

Sign me!!!!!!!!!!!

[JStockLivesOn]

Yeah, this is crap. As awesome as it is to have these trades go through for the excitement it brings to the NBA landscape, Stern's gotta do something about this in the off-season.

[Patterns]

Sucks when your team isn't doing it.

[SaintofKillers]

Van Horn didn't retire. He made it known through his agent upon inquiries regarding his availability, that he plans on taking a year off to spend with his family.

And the Pau Gasol trade is getting far too much credit. The "let's S&T 'retired' players" tactic have been attached to Dallas (KVH) and Chicago (PJ) since last June.

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Something that is being a little overlooked here is that you have to have Bird rights on the players or the MLE or BAE to be able to sign and trade a player to any significant amount. You can't just go to any random person and say, I'll give you $5M so I can complete my trade.

Its not something that is ever going to occur regularly because of that fact.

[Illuminati]

Hey, I would just like to say KVH is an amazing player. I would assume he's in tip top shape and could start right off the bat!

[kbitboc]

Is it possible for a team like Utah to sign John Stockton for 10 million and trade him to another team as an expiring contract?

[Illuminati]

Is it possible for a team like Utah to sign John Stockton for 10 million and trade him to another team as an expiring contract?

Wasn't KVH still under contract?

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Is it possible for a team like Utah to sign John Stockton for 10 million and trade him to another team as an expiring contract?

Only if he still has bird rights, in which case they can exceed the cap to sign him.

I think bird rights only stick around for a year (June 30-June 30, I believe).

The other scenario would be using the MLE, but then you need to wait like 3 months, so that would be quite the long sign and trade (and really not a true sign and trade in the technical sense), plus I'm not sure what the MLE rules are regarding guaranteed years.


And really, I don't see why Stern would feel the need to stop this. This "loophole" allowed a top 3 market to improve considerably.

It has been questioned around the Bulls board though, at what extent would Stern allow it to occur. For a couple million, its a small loophole and too minor to worry about. If Chicago used it with PJ Brown and signed him to a $10M contract, he might feel differently, who knows.

[BillessuR6]

These are the players that are eligible to be traded:

High Salary
Chicago P.J. Brown ($8,560,000)
Dallas Keith Van Horn ($15,694,250)
Indiana Rik Smits ($12,250,000)
Minnesota Latrell Sprewell ($14,625,000)

Medium Salary
Boston Roshown McLeod
Chicago Michael Sweetney
Detroit Victor Alexander, Dale Davis, Don Reid
Golden State Calbert Cheaney
Houston Maciej Lampe, Jake Tsakalidis
Indiana Zan Tabak
LA Lakers Ron Harper, Karl Malone, Shammond Williams
New Orleans Marc Jackson
Philadelphia Rodney Rogers
Phoenix Jalen Rose
Portland Voshon Leonard, Detlef Schrempf
Sacramento Vitaly Potapenko, Brent Price, Corliss Williamson
Seattle Danny Fortson
Utah Greg Ostertag
Washington Anthony Peeler

Minimum Salary
Boston Dana Barros, Grant Long
Dallas Vernon Maxwell, Johnny Newman, Walt Williams, Kevin Willis
Denver Wesley Person
Detroit Tony Delk, Danny Manning
Indiana Tyus Edney, Tim Hardaway, Terry Mills, LaSalle Thompson
LA Lakers Horace Grant, Mitch Richmond, John Salley, Brian Shaw
Miami Shandon Anderson, Christian Laettner, Gary Payton, John Wallace, Zhi-zhi Wang
Minnesota Oliver Miller, Sam Mitchell
New Jersey Travis Best, Hubert Davis, Sherman Douglas, Gheorghe Muresan
New York Kelvin Cato, Andrew Lang, Felton Spencer, Bruno Sundov
Philadelphia Rick Mahorn, Derrick McKey
Portland Chris Dudley
San Antonio Glenn Robinson, Nick Van Exel
Washington Chris Whitney

Link: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-3 ... raded.html

[Friend_Of_Haley]

Interesting list birdman...

I was thinking only in the sense of bird rights, which would allow for a major sign and trade, but I guess theres a lot more than just that.

So did a lot of these players never officially retire with the league or what?

Still, most of this list is insignificant.

[RJM]

Technically I don't see how someone could beat this particular loophole since most players just stop playing without making a formal declaration of retirement. You can't keep a player from coming back even if it looks a bit fishy. It wouldn't be fair to the Penny Hardaways of the world.

[penbeast0]

Thanks for the detail work Haley and Birdman. Is it really so bad to have a little more flexibility so these trades can get made. It just means the owners shell out a bit more to some retired players instead of buying off the Devean George types and Cuban doesn't seem to be that worried about money.

[Hikari]

KVH was on the radio in Utah on Saturday and said he was done playing. but he has never filed his retirement papers. He contract may get traded but he is not going to play.

[cucad8]

I think the best part of that list is that Minnesota has the rights to Sam Mitchell. I think it would be funny if to make a deal work between the two teams, they signed and traded him to Toronto. Shouldn't they lose his bird rights if he signs a contract with another team, regardless of the capacity of that contract?
Still, like a few others have said, I am fine with having this loophole. It mainly affects the owners having to pay a higher luxury tax to get deals to work. I'm fine with that for the excitement it brings in the big names moving.

[CableKC]

Does that mean that the Pacers can use this loophole to S&T a player like Rik Smits who hasn't played in the NBA for 6 or 7 years?

[heatwillbeback]

It definately is a loophole, but it hurts no one

people like KVH get a 8 million dollar payday for nothing, and for the owners who dish that out, they complete the trade to get the player they want.

[slickrickstyles]

Does that mean that the Pacers can use this loophole to S&T a player like Rik Smits who hasn't played in the NBA for 6 or 7 years?

Hell the way my Pacers are playing I wouldnt mind if they contacted him about his contract and had him suit up again. Sure as hell beats David Harrison.

[raleigh]

I'm hoping they close this silly loophole in the offseason.

For now, it's just smart GM'ing on the parts of LA and Dallas.