If I had to chose, why I'd rather trade Foye than McCants.

Krapinsky · Post #1 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:08 am

Point one: Foye is actually a year older than McCants. Actually a year and a day older, born on 9/24/83.

Point two: Foye wasn't very good in college. Look at his shooting percentages. His college career average was under 40%!. The highest he ever shot was 42.1%. McCants on the other hand had a career average of 48.6%, and shot 7% better from long range.

McCants to me has more long term potential. From the day Foye was drafted we all had these high expectations cause we thought he would bring us back to the playoffs and keep KG around. He was the key. I have come to the realization that those expectations weren't realistic. Why was Foye even picked so high? His college numbers and tweenerness don't justify it. McCants is a solid 2, and if he can get his head on right can be a 20ppg scorer given the minutes.

If Foye shows he can't handle the point, and that he and Rashad are redundant, then I say we trade Foye and keep McCants.

deeney0 · Post #2 » by **deeney0** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:22 am

Counterarguments:
-McCants has never had a month in the NBA like Foye had last April
-Foye doesn't turn the ball over as much as Shaddy, he doesn't foul as much, and I'd take Foye over Shad on defense (against either guard position)
-Considering attitude, you'd have to lean towards Randy

Post #3 » by **Basti** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:23 am

I guess if we'd offer both of them it would depend a lot on what we'd be getting in return

but I also want to say something PRO foye. I guess it's more of a attitude thing why foye is considered better than mccants. foye seems to be really patient and willing to gain as much experience/hints etc as possible while I certainly have doubts that mccants has the same attitude in that regard as foye has.

another thing where foye is better that IMO when I compare both is clutchness. I don't think rashad is bad, no he's really good but foye seems to be better and he seems to have a natural desire to be the man in the crunch time

but

dunno why but if foye really doesn't pan out as a pg I'd rather trade him too but only if the deal was right.

delux55 · Post #4 » by **delux55** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:30 am

Foye doesnt have the explosiveness mccants has

His shot is terrilbe considering he will never be a NBA pg he shoots very very badly for sg. He doesnt have much range due to this weakness in his shot.

He might seem to control himself better than mccants on the court but I dont see foye ever being a consistent nba scorer, something mccants could do very easily. People have to respect his outside shot which opens the lane for him to drive, thats not something Foye has in his offensive package

horaceworthy · Post #5 » by **horaceworthy** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:51 am

Foye shot well when he had his feet set last year (same TS%, 3P% and a better FT% than McCants during his rookie year). His shot looked like it had improved a lot during summer league, but ever since he got hurt, he hasn't been able to find his shot (similar to McCants last year).

deeney0 · Post #6 » by **deeney0** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:58 am

delux55 wrote:His shot is terrilbe considering he will never be a NBA pg he shoots very very badly for sg. He doesnt have much range due to this weakness in his shot.

Uh, no. That's not true at all. Foye shot very well last year. Lose the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Randy is coming off a major injury. Shad shot like sh*t after his injury, too.

Post #7 » by **Basti** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:01 am

deeney0 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Uh, no. That's not true at all. Foye shot very well last year. Lose the "what have you done for me lately" attitude. Randy is coming off a major injury. Shad shot like sh*t after his injury, too.

if there wouldn't be 2 superstar talented pg in the next draft I'd say give Randy a shot next year but well Rose and to a lesser extend Mayo are really appealing

Krapinsky · Post #8 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:29 am

Foye shot 43% last year. That's nothing to brag about.

Shad does foul more, and his defense isn't any better than Foye's, but that's common with all young players and is something he can improve on. Remember point 1, McCants is a year younger than Foye. The best comparison is comparing McCants this year to Foye last year, b/c they were the same age.

deeney0 · Post #9 » by **deeney0** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:44 am

A year younger, a year more experience in the league. Experience is more important than age. Nonetheless

Foye's TS% last year: 56.3% Shad this year: 54.2%
Foye's Points/shot last year: 1.20 Shad this year: 1.15
Foyes eFG% last year: 48.3% Shad this year: 52.0%

Virtually identical. Foye has the edge in TS% and points/shot (both of which take getting to the line into account), Shad in eFG% (which neglects FTs).

casey · Post #10 » by **casey** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:03 am

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:Point one: Foye is actually a year older than McCants. Actually a year and a day older, born on 9/24/83.

How is that relevent to anything?

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:Point two: Foye wasn't very good in college. Look at his shooting percentages. His college career average was under 40%!. The highest he ever shot was 42.1%. McCants on the other hand had a career average of 48.6%, and shot 7% better from long range.

So we're judging players solely on shooting percentages now?

Post #11 » by **TheFranchise21** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:04 am

This makes me want Rose even more.

casey · Post #12 » by **casey** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:05 am

Dr.Krapinsky wrote:Shad does foul more, and his defense isn't any better than Foye's, but that's common with all young players and is something he can improve on.

No, no it's not.

Post #13 » by **Basti** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:06 am

assuming we go with rose this draft, what are we going to do? trade randy? if so what do you think is his value after missing half of the season. do you think we might get a young defensive center for him or a midrange 1st rounder on draft day?

deeney0 · Post #14 » by **deeney0** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:10 am

The Wolves taking Rose in the draft means the Wolves got the 2nd pick and Beasley went #1. That's far from a sure thing.

Post #15 » by **Basti** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:19 am

yeah I think so as well but imagine if that scenario did happen...

what are we going to do?

deeney0 · Post #16 » by **deeney0** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:29 am

Same thing no matter who we draft, don't make any rash moves based on assumptions and bide time seeing who plays well together. Were it up to me, I wouldn't touch any of Jefferson, Brewer, Foye, McCants, Gomes, Smith, Telfair, or any of the first round picks until at the very least this time next year. No reason to rush things. The possible exception is the possibility of moving Jaric with Smith or Gomes and getting a pick back, but even then I'm iffy.

Post #17 » by **Basti** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:32 am

I wouldn't want to rush it either but if we draft rose or mayo our backcourt is too stacked and I just want to evaluate every option to improve this team

Krapinsky · Post #18 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:33 am

deeney0 wrote:A year younger, a year more experience in the league. Experience is more important than age. Nonetheless

Foye's TS% last year: 56.3% Shad this year: 54.2%
Foye's Points/shot last year: 1.20 Shad this year: 1.15
Foyes eFG% last year: 48.3% Shad this year: 52.0%

Virtually identical. Foye has the edge in TS% and points/shot (both of which take getting to the line into account), Shad in eFG% (which neglects FTs).

Foye had KG and Ricky Davis to play with last year. You would expect a third scorer to have a higher shooting percentage than a number 2. I don't see Foye being able to duplicate these numbers with the current roster.

deeney0 · Post #19 » by **deeney0** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:42 am

You're picking and choosing which stats to look at and which not to. You brought up college stats (Shad had Felton and May. Randy was forced to play PF at times because 'Nova was so small) but are ignoring actual NBA evidence. I agree that it's very difficult to compare this years' Wolves to last years, but that's what we've got. You're the one who wanted to compare this year's Shad to last year's Foye, you just didn't like the result.

I don't think there's enough evidence to make any judgments, much less the absolutist conclusions you're drawing - what makes you say that Shad can improve but Randy can't? That makes no sense to me.

And I still contend that Foye is significantly better on D.

Krapinsky · Post #20 » by **Krapinsky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:43 am

casey wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So we're judging players solely on shooting percentages now?

Give me a break. Re Point one. Age is relevant in the equation. All other things being equal, you always go with the younger player, because he has more room to improve.

Re point two. No we're not judging solely by shooting percentages. But when comparing two small shooting guards, both of whom share the same role on the team- to score first, shooting percentage is pretty important. Being a 41% shooter in college is not good and is at a minimum evidence of how good a player Foye will become.

Let's compare Foye to Bayless of AZ. Look at his Freshman numbers compared to Foye. Bayless is a combo guard shooting 48% while scoring more points per game than Foye did his last year in college, while also averaging more assists. Bayless is rated about the same in terms of draft posistion this year as Foye was when we drafted him, so I ask, why was Foye rated so high?