Shelden Williams can learn from Artest

[HMFFL]

BRIGHT FUTURE: If former Hawks forward Shelden Williams was looking for a mentor, he found one in rugged Sacramento forward Ron Artest. One of the NBA's most physical and intimidating performers, Artest said he's going to take Williams under his wing and help bring out the former No. 5 pick's physical side. "I like him," Artest said before Wednesday's game at Arco Arena. "He knows how to play. Now I'm going to teach him a few tricks and turn him loose on some people. Because he's got the size, strength and the skills he needs to be effective. He just needs somebody to help him with the little things."

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[Smills91]

Do you think Shelden can be a solid starting PF in the NBA? Or even a good one?

[HMFFL]

Yes. At some point I believe he's going to show that he's capable of being a double-double guy. He needs to work on his foot speed and coordination. I actually believe he needs to get into some dance classes, however he could already be doing this and we may never hear about it.

Give him consist minutes and he will average 10 ppg and close to 10 rpg. He needs to stop relying on his teammates to take the pressure off him and stop being so aggressive. He's never going to become a shot blocker at this level, however he gets himself into foul trouble due to his lack of speed, and poor body positioning.

[Smills91]

Those do seem like things Ron could help him with as they have similar body types IMO. Just Ron is MORE coordinated.

[Ballings7]

Yeah, that's cool this has come about. As this was something I was expecting to emerge, assuming Ron stays around this season. Which it looks like he could well be. Ron can relay a number of things to Shelden about playing at this level, and specifically playing down in that paint.

I also agree Shelden can really be something legit in this league, and I'd say he will be.

[ICMTM]

Yes. At some point I believe he's going to show that he's capable of being a double-double guy. He needs to work on his foot speed and coordination. I actually believe he needs to get into some dance classes, however he could already be doing this and we may never hear about it.

Give him consist minutes and he will average 10 ppg and close to 10 rpg. He needs to stop relying on his teammates to take the pressure off him and stop being so aggressive. He's never going to become a shot blocker at this level, however he gets himself into foul trouble due to his lack of speed, and poor body positioning.

If only you could teach footspeed.

[sackings916]

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If only you could teach footspeed.

I think slimming down might help Shelden improve speed and athleticism. He's listed at about 260 i think? Maybe 240-245 is a more ideal weight for him.

[pillwenney]

And Ron's "terrible for a rebuilding team".

[SacKingZZZ]

Well he is if you are trying to actually GET THESE YOUNG PLAYERS A CHANCE TO PLAY. Not to mention with Ron out there the onus is on competetiion and not development. The latter of which should be the primary focus right now.

Oh well, what's another year of development wasted right!

Shelden's foot speed has looked OK to me, and he looks as if he is going to be a pretty decent paint protecter and shot blocker. He is also a much quicker jumper than I realized which will help in shot altering/blocking. He also measured out a pretty good vertical in the pre-draft a few years ago.

[pillwenney]

Well he is if you are trying to actually GET THESE YOUNG PLAYERS A CHANCE TO PLAY. Not to mention with Ron out there the onus is on competetiion and not development. The latter of which should be the primary focus right now.

Oh well, what's another year of development wasted right!

Shelden's foot speed has looked OK to me, and he looks as if he is going to be a pretty decent paint protecter and shot blocker. He is also a much quicker jumper than I realized which will help in shot altering/blocking. He also measured out a pretty good vertical in the pre-draft a few years ago.

Ron isn't the one whose minutes they should be getting, it's Mikki.

Going with a lineup of....

Udrih\Johnson
Martin\Douby
Salmons\Garcia
Artest\S.Williams
Miller\Hawes

could be much more beneficial for this team IMO. I understand where you're coming from and that's why I think a S&T is likely. But I also think that signing him and holding on to him for just a little while longer might not be a terrible idea.

[SacKingZZZ]

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Ron isn't the one whose minutes they should be getting, it's Mikki.

Going with a lineup of....

Udrih\Johnson
Martin\Douby
Salmons\Garcia
Artest\S.Williams
Miller\Hawes

could be much more beneficial for this team IMO. I understand where you're coming from and that's why I think a S&T is likely. But I also think that signing him and holding on to him for just a little while longer might not be a terrible idea.

But game in game out it's Ron who is really stealing their minutes. I guess the blame can be thrust onto the shoulders of Theus if you really look at it. Ron spends a good amount of time at PF so Theus can smallball to get Salmons/Garcia minutes.

Ron being here really takes away minutes from 4 different players, Salmons,Garcia,Shelden, and Hawes. Ron plays the 3 and 4 so he is either sticking our 3's on the bench or guys that play the 4 or 5 because when Ron is at the 4 Theus will play Mikki or Brad at the 5. Sure you could bench Mikki but that would still only free up a few more minutes here or there for Hawes/Shelden since they would be most likely splitting the minutes, most likely Theus' answer would be to smallball even more so John can get more time. Plus I think Theus has given up using John/Garcia at PG so they will only see minutes at the 2/3, that means there will be a guy like AJ or Lue gettin those backup minutes at point.

[pillwenney]

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But game in game out it's Ron who is really stealing their minutes. I guess the blame can be thrust onto the shoulders of Theus if you really look at it. Ron spends a good amount of time at PF so Theus can smallball to get Salmons/Garcia minutes.

Ron being here really takes away minutes from 4 different players, Salmons,Garcia,Shelden, and Hawes. Ron plays the 3 and 4 so he is either sticking our 3's on the bench or guys that play the 4 or 5 because when Ron is at the 4 Theus will play Mikki or Brad at the 5. Sure you could bench Mikki but that would still only free up a few more minutes here or there for Hawes/Shelden since they would be most likely splitting the minutes, most likely Theus' answer would be to smallball even more so John can get more time. Plus I think Theus has given up using John/Garcia at PG so they will only see minutes at the 2/3, that means there will be a guy like AJ or Lue gettin those backup minutes at point.

But Spencer, for instance, should only be getting so many minutes anyway. The way to develop really young guys like that isn't to just play them as much as possible. If it were than, trading Brad would really be the best option there. If we didn't have Mikki, the minute breakdown could be.

PG: Beno - 34mins, Johnson - 11 mins, Garcia - 3 mins
SG: Martin - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
SF: Artest - 9 mins, Salmons - 30 mins, Garcia - 9 mins
PF: Artest - 26 mins, Shelden - 18 mins, Spencer - 4 mins
C: Brad - 34 mins, Spencer - 14 mins

If we got rid of Ron, it would be like...

PG: Beno - 34 mins, Johnson - 11 mins, Garcia - 3 mins
SG: Martin - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
SF: Salmons - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
PF: Moore - 30 mins, Shelden - 18 mins
C: Brad - 34 mins, Spencer - 14 mins

Spencer gets 4 fewer minutes, Shelden's minutes don't change, Salmons gets 5 more minutes and Cisco gets 4 more minutes. Ron can teach the young guys things about the game. Mikki can teach them how to yell "and 1!" every time they go to the basket.

And just for fun, without Brad, it would be like...

PG: Beno - 34 mins, Johnson - 11 mins, Garcia - 3 mins
SG: Martin - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
SF: Salmons - 33 mins, Garcia - 12 mins, Artest - 3 mins
PF: Artest - 32 mins, Williams - 16 mins
C: Moore - 30 mins, Hawes - 16 mins, Williams - 2 mins

So really, I wouldn't say that it's fair to say that version is really better than another. But the fact remains that we never needed Mikki, really.

[Ballings7]

Yup. I still don't care at all for the Moore signing. He needs to go in the off-season.

Getting Kleiza would of created a similar log-jam tricking from 3, 4, and the 2. Because Kleiza plays the 3 and 4 as well, then where Douby/Garcia/Salmons play.

[SacKingZZZ]

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But game in game out it's Ron who is really stealing their minutes. I guess the blame can be thrust onto the shoulders of Theus if you really look at it. Ron spends a good amount of time at PF so Theus can smallball to get Salmons/Garcia minutes.

Ron being here really takes away minutes from 4 different players, Salmons,Garcia,Shelden, and Hawes. Ron plays the 3 and 4 so he is either sticking our 3's on the bench or guys that play the 4 or 5 because when Ron is at the 4 Theus will play Mikki or Brad at the 5. Sure you could bench Mikki but that would still only free up a few more minutes here or there for Hawes/Shelden since they would be most likely splitting the minutes, most likely Theus' answer would be to smallball even more so John can get more time. Plus I think Theus has given up using John/Garcia at PG so they will only see minutes at the 2/3, that means there will be a guy like AJ or Lue gettin those backup minutes at point.

But Spencer, for instance, should only be getting so many minutes anyway. The way to develop really young guys like that isn't to just play them as much as possible. If it were than, trading Brad would really be the best option there. If we didn't have Mikki, the minute breakdown could be.

PG: Beno - 34mins, Johnson - 11 mins, Garcia - 3 mins
SG: Martin - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
SF: Artest - 9 mins, Salmons - 30 mins, Garcia - 9 mins
PF: Artest - 26 mins, Shelden - 18 mins, Spencer - 4 mins
C: Brad - 34 mins, Spencer - 14 mins

If we got rid of Ron, it would be like...

PG: Beno - 34 mins, Johnson - 11 mins, Garcia - 3 mins
SG: Martin - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
SF: Salmons - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
PF: Moore - 30 mins, Shelden - 18 mins
C: Brad - 34 mins, Spencer - 14 mins

Spencer gets 4 fewer minutes, Shelden's minutes don't change, Salmons gets 5 more minutes and Cisco gets 4 more minutes. Ron can teach the young guys things about the game. Mikki can teach them how to yell "and 1!" every time they go to the basket.

And just for fun, without Brad, it would be like...

PG: Beno - 34 mins, Johnson - 11 mins, Garcia - 3 mins
SG: Martin - 35 mins, Garcia - 13 mins
SF: Salmons - 33 mins, Garcia - 12 mins, Artest - 3 mins
PF: Artest - 32 mins, Williams - 16 mins
C: Moore - 30 mins, Hawes - 16 mins, Williams - 2 mins

So really, I wouldn't say that it's fair to say that version is really better than another. But the fact remains that we never needed Mikki, really.

Really? That's usually how its done on REBUILDING teams.

And the fact is you ask any player and they will tell you that you can't really learn to play until you get the chance to play CONSISTENT minutes. That's the problem for me, sure 16 mpg sounds great but when 4 come in garbage time and the other time is spread throughout inconsistent stretches you really aren't getting much done.

I agree that we never needed Mikki and right now that signing is more questionable than before. I like the guy and his energy but jeez...

And as for the minute thing you have more than a few of the players like Ron, Brad, and Kevin playing around 2 minutes less than they really do. Combined you are talking maybe 7-8 minutes total. Those 7-8 minutes come from Hawes/Shelden if I know Theus.

[mobiuseinz]

I like that, maybe Williams will develop into someone like Oakley. We could use that.

[BMiller52]

I like that, maybe Williams will develop into someone like Oakley. We could use that.

Yeah. I mean look at the effect Ron has had tutoring Kevin and Cisco. They've both gotten a lot better because of him. If he can teach Shelden some post moves and help him there, and teach him some tricks on defense I would say he can become a damn good player. I'm not going to predict stats or a comparison because I don't want to put a limit or expectations on the guy's potential but I would say it can improve him a lot. He just needs to pay attention to Ron and he'll be allright. Also in his few minutes here Shelden's already had like 3 blocks(stat keeper screwed him out of 1 in his 1st game though, I know he had 2 there) so if he can become a shotblocker for us that would help a lot. Ron might be able to help him there. I just want to see the guy get some minutes first though.

[SacKingZZZ]

Yeah I remember that, he blocked a jumper of Outlaws and they didn't count it for some reason.

I don't know who I would compare Shelden too player wise. Body wise obviously a guy like Boozer or maybe even a Brian Skinner type. Really wide and strong. Not ground bound however, quick jumper and high jumper for his size. His foot speed is actually pretty good, running the court is his problem area.

[pillwenney]

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Really? That's usually how its done on REBUILDING teams.

And the fact is you ask any player and they will tell you that you can't really learn to play until you get the chance to play CONSISTENT minutes. That's the problem for me, sure 16 mpg sounds great but when 4 come in garbage time and the other time is spread throughout inconsistent stretches you really aren't getting much done.

I agree that we never needed Mikki and right now that signing is more questionable than before. I like the guy and his energy but jeez...

And as for the minute thing you have more than a few of the players like Ron, Brad, and Kevin playing around 2 minutes less than they really do. Combined you are talking maybe 7-8 minutes total. Those 7-8 minutes come from Hawes/Shelden if I know Theus.

Not when they still have players that deserve more minutes. You don't see Andre Miller getting benched for Louis Williams in Philly.

[Ballings7]

They supposedly aren't looking to move Miller, either. I also don't see Lou Williams being a starting PG in this league. He's a talented small, athletic guard, though.

[Smills91]

Shelden's played relatively decent in his couple short stints. I hope he proves me wrong, cuz I am/was not much of a fan of his game.